Government Proposal on an Elected Head of State

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Anyway, I've come up with a proposal to elect the King.

A convocation of the following people:
-Eight MCs, chosen by the parties in proportion to their Cosa seats (plus the Seneschal if not an MC or Senator)
-The eight Senators
-The Justices of the UC
-The eight provincial executives
-The eight officers of the Royal Civil Service
-All Talossans who have been a citizen for at least ten years

The King is elected from this group papal style; repeated single-preference votes until someone gets 2/3.

I have no objection in principle to this procedure, if that's what it takes to get a broad consensus, though I haven't asked other FreeDems. I debated whether to add a 2/3 majority in my proposal, but I worried that that might lead to endless deadlock. Does the Opposition have a real problem with the candidate chosen by this method being then ratified by a referendum of the whole nation?

[GV]

Anyway, I've come up with a proposal to elect the King.

A convocation of the following people:
-Eight MCs, chosen by the parties in proportion to their Cosa seats (plus the Seneschal if not an MC or Senator)
-The eight Senators
-The Justices of the UC
-The eight provincial executives
-The eight officers of the Royal Civil Service
-All Talossans who have been a citizen for at least ten years

The King is elected from this group papal style; repeated single-preference votes until someone gets 2/3.

Apportioning the MCs will be a close thing with close decimals.

As to the ten years requirement, is this 'ten years since original naturalization with no break in citizenship'?  This will force us to do something Ben Madison never wanted to do: keep exact records as to who renounced and when and who returned and when.

One can be a provincial executive and a Senator, as I was in Fiova 2017-2018, and possibly in my Maricopa days.  Do they get two votes (hope not) or is the conclave deprived of a vote?  Multiple office-holding of all permutations must be taken into account.

This proposal seems to my mind in snowing Houston (yes, indeed) to be a good start, however.  There should be a mechanism to keep the eligible voters at an exact multiple of three.

Also, what would be your requirements to be monarch?

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

-Eight MCs, chosen by the parties in proportion to their Cosa seats (plus the Seneschal if not an MC or Senator)

Apportioning the MCs will be a close thing with close decimals.

Converting the 200 seat Cosă arrangement into an 8 seat arrangement would be pretty simple on paper, it's just that parties with less than 15 seats could end up with no representation in the 8 seat arrangement because of how the math turns out and there'd have to be a discussion beforehand whether that's acceptable or not.

[Ian Plätschisch]

Anyway, I've come up with a proposal to elect the King.

A convocation of the following people:
-Eight MCs, chosen by the parties in proportion to their Cosa seats (plus the Seneschal if not an MC or Senator)
-The eight Senators
-The Justices of the UC
-The eight provincial executives
-The eight officers of the Royal Civil Service
-All Talossans who have been a citizen for at least ten years

The King is elected from this group papal style; repeated single-preference votes until someone gets 2/3.

I have no objection in principle to this procedure, if that's what it takes to get a broad consensus, though I haven't asked other FreeDems. I debated whether to add a 2/3 majority in my proposal, but I worried that that might lead to endless deadlock. Does the Opposition have a real problem with the candidate chosen by this method being then ratified by a referendum of the whole nation?

I mean, there's a chance it could get deadlocked, but Popes have been elected this way for millenia and those elections have only gotten seriously deadlocked a few times.

With regard to the referendum, while I have no strong objection, I think that a level of indirection is appropriate for electing the King (I also have a hard time believing that someone who gets 2/3 of the Convocation could ever fail to get a simple majority in the referendum).

[Ian Plätschisch]

As to the ten years requirement, is this 'ten years since original naturalization with no break in citizenship'?  This will force us to do something Ben Madison never wanted to do: keep exact records as to who renounced and when and who returned and when.

I thought we already did that

One can be a provincial executive and a Senator, as I was in Fiova 2017-2018, and possibly in my Maricopa days.  Do they get two votes (hope not) or is the conclave deprived of a vote?  Multiple office-holding of all permutations must be taken into account. ...There should be a mechanism to keep the eligible voters at an exact multiple of three.

Also, what would be your requirements to be monarch?

Taking this into account wouldn't be so hard; nobody gets more than one seat regardless of the number of ways they qualify. This would make the number of seats in the Convocation variable, but that's OK; a threshold for a 2/3 majority can be calculated regardless.

I would not make any requirements to be King; I trust the Convocation to get it right.

[Ian Plätschisch]

-Eight MCs, chosen by the parties in proportion to their Cosa seats (plus the Seneschal if not an MC or Senator)

Apportioning the MCs will be a close thing with close decimals.

Converting the 200 seat Cosă arrangement into an 8 seat arrangement would be pretty simple on paper, it's just that parties with less than 15 seats could end up with no representation in the 8 seat arrangement because of how the math turns out and there'd have to be a discussion beforehand whether that's acceptable or not.

The alternative is to hold a vote in the Cosa using some kind of multiple-member system; I didn't look into that very much, but I'd love to hear your ideas given you are the resident expert on this stuff.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

The alternative is to hold a vote in the Cosa using some kind of multiple-member system; I didn't look into that very much, but I'd love to hear your ideas given you are the resident expert on this stuff.

Some methods that come to mind:

• simply scaling down from 200 to 8 as mentioned earlier, maybe using the Sainte-Laguë method as to not disadvantage small parties too much,
• some sort of STV thing, with all the pros and cons that come with it, or
• something really exotic like Proportional Approval Voting, specifically MSPAV with best ordering which would be the best choice by far if it werent so hard to calculate.

It's mostly a matter of personal preference, and convenience of calculation vs. quality of the result at the end of the day. I'd say all three of these would be equally fine.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

I have another question actually:

-Eight MCs, chosen by the parties in proportion to their Cosa seats (plus the Seneschal if not an MC or Senator)
-The eight Senators
-The Justices of the UC
-The eight provincial executives
-The eight officers of the Royal Civil Service
-All Talossans who have been a citizen for at least ten years

Which eight officers? There are more than eight offices associated with or adjacent to the Civil Service, so which ones are meant by that? Or is it because there happen to be eight different people in charge of all these aforementioned offices as of now?

[Eðo Grischun]

I have another question actually:

-Eight MCs, chosen by the parties in proportion to their Cosa seats (plus the Seneschal if not an MC or Senator)
-The eight Senators
-The Justices of the UC
-The eight provincial executives
-The eight officers of the Royal Civil Service
-All Talossans who have been a citizen for at least ten years

Which eight officers? There are more than eight offices associated with or adjacent to the Civil Service, so which ones are meant by that? Or is it because there happen to be eight different people in charge of all these aforementioned offices as of now?

- Secretary of State
- Burgermeister of Inland Revenue
- Scribe of Abbavilla
- Royal Archivist
- President of the Royal Society (University)
- Chancellor of the Bar
- Squirrel King of College of Arms
- Poet Laureate

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

I have another question actually:

-Eight MCs, chosen by the parties in proportion to their Cosa seats (plus the Seneschal if not an MC or Senator)
-The eight Senators
-The Justices of the UC
-The eight provincial executives
-The eight officers of the Royal Civil Service
-All Talossans who have been a citizen for at least ten years

Which eight officers? There are more than eight offices associated with or adjacent to the Civil Service, so which ones are meant by that? Or is it because there happen to be eight different people in charge of all these aforementioned offices as of now?

- Secretary of State
- Burgermeister of Inland Revenue
- Scribe of Abbavilla
- Royal Archivist
- President of the Royal Society (University)
- Chancellor of the Bar
- Squirrel King of College of Arms
- Poet Laureate

What happens if one Talossan holds more than one of the 8 offices (such as myself as Secretary of State and Scribe of Abbavilla)?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

What happens if one Talossan holds more than one of the 8 offices (such as myself as Secretary of State and Scribe of Abbavilla)?

I assume you only get one vote. Same as if a UC Justice is also an MC.

[Ian Plätschisch]

What happens if one Talossan holds more than one of the 8 offices (such as myself as Secretary of State and Scribe of Abbavilla)?

I assume you only get one vote. Same as if a UC Justice is also an MC.

That is what I had in mind.

[Eðo Grischun]

Can I ask the Leader of the Opposition for opinions on the other points in the Seneschal's post that haven't been touched on yet?  Specifically, the 6 year rule for conclave forming and the 7 year rule for automatic abdication.  Also are you ok with the Senior Justice chairing the assembly or do you envisage a conclave without a chair?  And, the bit about a Council of Regency as an emergency contingency?

[GV]

As to the ten years requirement, is this 'ten years since original naturalization with no break in citizenship'?  This will force us to do something Ben Madison never wanted to do: keep exact records as to who renounced and when and who returned and when.

I thought we already did that

One can be a provincial executive and a Senator, as I was in Fiova 2017-2018, and possibly in my Maricopa days.  Do they get two votes (hope not) or is the conclave deprived of a vote?  Multiple office-holding of all permutations must be taken into account. ...There should be a mechanism to keep the eligible voters at an exact multiple of three.

Also, what would be your requirements to be monarch?

Taking this into account wouldn't be so hard; nobody gets more than one seat regardless of the number of ways they qualify. This would make the number of seats in the Convocation variable, but that's OK; a threshold for a 2/3 majority can be calculated regardless.

I would not make any requirements to be King; I trust the Convocation to get it right.

At least up to 2004, renunciation records were only retained if one having renounced did not make a return to Talossa.  Once a return to Talossa was made, the renunciation date was expunged as Ben always wanted to be magnanimous with things like that.

I would have the minimum age for monarch to be 30 years at the time of the 'demise' of the previous monarch (in whatever manner).

[Ian Plätschisch]

Can I ask the Leader of the Opposition for opinions on the other points in the Seneschal's post that haven't been touched on yet?  Specifically, the 6 year rule for conclave forming and the 7 year rule for automatic abdication.  Also are you ok with the Senior Justice chairing the assembly or do you envisage a conclave without a chair?  And, the bit about a Council of Regency as an emergency contingency?

All of that is fine with me. I don't see the chair of the conclave having any power other than performing admin duties like officially recognizing when eligible citizens claim their seats and setting the exact timetable for votes.