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Author Topic: 6th Clark - April 2021  (Read 525 times)

Online Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM

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6th Clark - April 2021
« on: April 01, 2021, 01:48:39 PM »
The April 2021 Clark is now here.


www.talossa.ca/files/clark.php?cosa=55&clark=6

Or here: www.talossa.ca/files/print_clark.php (this is the printer friendly version)


In PDF Form (which was made from the print_clark.php page):

www.talossa.ca/files/clarks/April2021Clark.pdf

or can vote online here: www.talossa.ca/files/clark_vote.php

Or in this thread, until the 21st of the month, at 19h30 TST.

Senators are allowed to create a single thread in the Senate chamber to post all of the Senate Votes that are not cast in this thread. Any votes not posted either using the form above, the current thread or the Senate thread might be ignored and void. Please do not vote by email or private messages.

When you vote, do not indicate any conditions which may make it sound like this vote isn't final: you can always change your vote later.

Please do not vote by email: We've had problems with email votes being caught in the spam filter.

All nominated Cosa Members and Senators have been emailed.



Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă,
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Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM
Secretary of State
Scribe of Abbavilla
Justice Emeritus of the Uppermost Cort
Dal Kingsbridge Pursuivant
Former Seneschal

Online Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu, O.SPM

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2021, 02:51:30 PM »
Per on all
ÜC on VoC

Gen. Davinescu, MC
The Most Honourable General Txoteu É. Davinescu, O.SPM

Minister of Defense, Kingdom of Talossa

Offline Iason Taiwos

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2021, 04:02:07 PM »
Per on all
Üc on VoC

Offline Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2021, 04:17:36 PM »
Rz21 contra
Rz22 contra
Rz23 per
Rz 24 contra

Voc: Non
Túischac'h of the 55th Cosa
MC, 55th Cosa, League of Center Conservatives
Secretary-General of the League of centre conservatives
Member of the L'Etats de Cézembre

Offline Placiej

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2021, 07:41:20 PM »
PER
PER
PER
AUS
UC

Online Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2021, 07:48:07 PM »
The 6th and final Clark of the 55th Cosa has ended.

RZ21 - Passed Cosa: 143/37 Senäts 5/2
RZ22 - Passed Cosa: 160/20 Senäts 5/2
RZ23 - Passed Cosa: 160/20 Senäts 6/1
RZ24 - Passed Cosa: 110/40 Senäts 4/1/2

Vote of Confidence: Passed 140/40

Sir Siervicül and Senator Ardpresteir did not vote.

Unless the Seneschal sets a month of recess, the Chancery respectfully reminds @King John to dissolve the 55th Cosa. The Chancery will now move into pre-election mode.



Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă,
Secretary of State
Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM
Secretary of State
Scribe of Abbavilla
Justice Emeritus of the Uppermost Cort
Dal Kingsbridge Pursuivant
Former Seneschal

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2021, 07:52:11 PM »
I am not minded to call a month of recess, because it's been too long since our last election anyway.

I foreshadow my intention of giving a Valedictory Address to the Cosa, but I will wait to do so until I hear His Majesty's intentions re: the promulgation, vetoing or benign neglect of the measures passed on this Clark. I need to know whether to be magnanimous or furious.

Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Talossa. Ask me anything.
JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2021, 06:27:53 PM »
It would be a real gesture of good faith going forward if the King were to let us know right now where he stands on the bills passed by this Clark.

A monarch who was determined to thwart the will of the Ziu might decide to wait for the absolute last minute to drop a veto, so as to prevent campaigning for the upcoming election from properly starting. You wouldn't want to think that we had a King who was so nakedly partisan and determined to tip the electoral scales.

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JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

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Offline GV

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2021, 10:01:51 PM »
It would be a real gesture of good faith going forward if the King were to let us know right now where he stands on the bills passed by this Clark.

A monarch who was determined to thwart the will of the Ziu might decide to wait for the absolute last minute to drop a veto, so as to prevent campaigning for the upcoming election from properly starting. You wouldn't want to think that we had a King who was so nakedly partisan and determined to tip the electoral scales.

And he continues to be silent...until the very last minute. 

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2021, 10:20:25 PM »
Well, let's think happy thoughts. Maybe he is deliberately ignoring the bills so they pass to referendum without his signature, like the Regent did with the bill setting up the referendum. That would be graceful and save everyone a lot of heartache, and take a lot of heat out of the upcoming election.

Or he's going to drop his vetos in precisely 48 hours, just to show that he's going to be obstructive right to the point the National Convocation deprives him of office.

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JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Offline Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2021, 11:37:18 PM »
One of the bills on the recent Clark includes a provision requiring His Majesty to abdicate the throne if a referendum -- immediately to follow -- succeeds.  It doesn't seem unreasonable for someone to take their time and carefully consider such a decision, after sixteen years of service to their country.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Dómnul Guaïr sür Sabor

    Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
    Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2021, 11:48:38 PM »
And by the way, congratulations to the Seneschal!  Dama Miestră Schivă, UrN is about to become the first poster on this Witt to pass a thousand posts (16% of the total posts on Witt)!

With her prolific energy and frequent participation, she's left everyone else in the dust over the past two-and-a-half years.  My own humble self and Etho are second and third-place, respectively, with 600 and 500-odd posts.  Rookie numbers!

Here's another impressive stat: if you add up the total posts of the 50 least prolific posters, you still don't surpass the Seneschal's total (and that's not even counting the 33% of accounts with zero posts)!  That kind of dedication takes a truly special person.  Well-done, D:na Seneschal!
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Dómnul Guaïr sür Sabor

    Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
    Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline King John

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2021, 11:42:49 AM »


Sextéu Clark da Simca-Quintéu Cosa

Noi refuçént noastra sancziun à’cest RZ21 es RZ24 es perventüră exerciçént l’impidamaintsch rexhital.

Noi aprovént acest RZ22 es RZ23.  Lor recorda starp l'annuntzia dels legeux.

—  Ian Regeu





Sixth Clark of the Fifty-Fifth Cosa

We refuse our assent to RZ21 and RZ24 and herewith exercise the royal veto.

We assent to RZ22 and RZ23.  Record them among the annals of the law.

—  John Regeu



Explanation

RZ21
I neither intend nor desire to abdicate the throne, or to see the Kingdom of Talossa transformed into a Republic with an elected Presidential figurehead, even if he is called a "King".  (At a minimum, we should call things by their right names.)

RZ24
Talossans should be governed by Talossan law, and so I believe the goal of this proposed law is a worthy one.  I further appreciate that the bill requires that anyone charged with "repugnant behaviour bringing Talossa into disrepute" must have already been convicted of a crime “incurring penal servitude", and that due process is afforded the defendant.  However, this proposal offends against a fundamental principle of justice: no one should stand trial for a crime that has been invented for them on the spot.

I would further note that it is unclear whether or not the offender must have been actually sentenced to penal servitude or simply subject to being so sentenced.  Under Wisconsin law, for instance, a Class C misdemeanor may be penalized with a fine of up to $500 USD or 30 days imprisonment.  It is unclear, therefore, whether or not a Talossan could be prosecuted for the crime of "operat[ing] upon any highway of this state any vehicle required by law to be registered without having the license plate or plates securely attached."  It would appear to depend on whether or not a Justice believed such behavior to violate the "tranquility of others" or other such phrases.

Whether or not some violation of local law "counts" as a violation of Talossan law should not be left to the opinion of a Justice; that would make it impossible to know ahead of time what actions violate Talossan law.

I would further note that it is unclear how exactly the proposed law would interact with many aspects of the Covenants of Rights and Freedoms, most particularly the Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh Covenants. There are many jurisdictions around the world who seem to be happy to punish with "penal servitude" (as well as death, mutiliation, and so on), people who speak in a way or on topics that displease the local regime (and for all we know, might displease a Talossan Justice).

Finally, it seems unlikely that any Talossan being held to penal servitude anywhere would be able to defend himself freely in the Talossan corts. There may be places where prisoners are permitted free access to the web, but I've never heard of one. We do NOT want to establish a legal system in Talossa that tries citizens without their having a chance to defend themselves.

For these reasons I would ask the Cosa and Senate to find a less problematic way to accomplish the reasonable ends this Bill is intended to serve.

Offline King John

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2021, 11:45:43 AM »
On another note, it seems sort of ridiculous to me, when the law says someone has to act by a particular time, to get all huffy and offended (or even to pretend to be offended) about his not acting before that time.  If you don't like the deadlines established in law, change them.

-- John R

Offline Ian Plätschisch

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Re: 6th Clark - April 2021
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2021, 01:46:12 PM »
I neither intend nor desire to abdicate the throne
I hope His Majesty understands that we would likely not be in this situation if he participated enough in Talossan life to make his statement ring true. As it stands now, it often appears he desires to abdicate all Royal responsibilities except those pertaining to preserving his own power.

I have been absolutely consistent on calling for more Royal involvement for more than two years (as the AMP Manifesto for the 53rd Cosa election, published in February 2019, will attest). I can only give so many warnings before I become inclined to support drastic measures such as the one now under consideration.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 01:47:49 PM by Ian Plätschisch »