Re: 6th Clark - April 2021

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

As someone who is not (yet) a Membreu del Ziu, I will post the following message on the El Glheþ Talossan board instead.

Sextéu Clark da Simca-Quintéu Cosa

Noi refuçént noastra sancziun à'cest RZ21 es RZ24 es perventüră exerciçént l'impidamaintsch rexhital.

Noi aprovént acest RZ22 es RZ23.  Lor recorda starp l'annuntzia dels legeux.

—  Ian Regeu

It is always great to see the national language used in official correspondence, which is why I wrote the "El Estat" document for the then-Regent-now-Baron back then in the first place, but I must demand that, if the language is to be used, that it should be used properly. This passage contains some errors which are so basic that they are beyond embarrassing, especially for someone who is said to not only have studied the language but have been a catalyst for the controversial 2007 Arestada, if I understand the TalossaWiki correctly. Here is a quick rundown.

Sextéu Clark da Simca-Quintéu Cosa

This literally means "Sixth Clark of Five-Fifth{wrong gender} Cosa".
The correct translation is Sextéu Clark dal Simeinçe-Quintéă Cosă.

Noi refuçént noastra sancziun à'cest RZ21 es RZ24 es perventüră exerciçént l'impidamaintsch rexhital.

Literally "We refuse{wrong stress} our* sanction to this RZ21 and RZ24 and herewith exercise{wrong stress} the royal veto."
Regular verbs in the first and third person plural (noi, os, as, ça *-ent) are never stressed on the final syllable. I also have an issue with the inconsistent use of Ă; it should be either noastra ... perventüra or noastră ... perventüră (or noastrâ ... perventürâ but that is neither here nor there).
Thus, the correct translation is Noi refuçent noastră sancziun àð RZ21 es RZ24 es perventüră exerciçent l'impidamaintsch rexhital.

Noi aprovént acest RZ22 es RZ23.  Lor recorda starp l'annuntzia dels legeux.

Literally "We approve{wrong stress} this RZ22 and RZ23. Record them* among the digest* of (the) laws."
I checked the Scúrzniâ Gramáticâ, talossan.com and the draft of the 2017 Gid Compläts, and I have come to realise that the use of "lor" there is ambiguous. All of these documents explain that "ça" is the neuter plural, i.e. "they" when talking about inanimate objects, and that the object form of "ça" is "en", but the logical consequence that therefore "them" when talking about inanimate objects is "en" in Talossan is never explicitly stated. I for one would say that using "lor" here is wrong, but I am not sure.
The Talossan word for annals is "adnalăs". "annuntziă" is digest, or at least the phrase "Annuntziă dels Legeux" is consistently translated as "Digest of Laws" on TalossaWiki despite "annuntziă" missing from the dictionary. I do not mind the reference to the Digest, but if you aim for an accurate translation, you ought to use "adnalăs" instead.
In any case, the way I would translate it is Noi aprovent RZ22 es RZ23.  Recordetz-en starp las adnalăs dels legeux.



Should any questions arise, please let me know.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Thanks for this, this is precisely what SIGN is supposed to do. In defence of Ián Lupúl el Regeu Fäts-Niþil, at least he's trying.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Thanks for this, this is precisely what SIGN is supposed to do. In defence of Ián Lupúl el Regeu Fäts-Niþil, at least he's trying.

Speaking of which, *farniént. I discovered that word 20 minutes ago or so.

EDIT: also, Lúpul, otherwise the stress is wrong.

[King John]

Thank you for the corrections.  I should have prrofread more carefully.

John R

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Looks like I'll have to use this thread again. Instead of doing a big song and dance routine out of it, I'll just post the corrections directly. Comments are marked in orange.

 

Noi IAN, Gräts à (this is pretty interesting, see footnote 1) Díeu Dïeu Regeu da Talossa es da toct sieux Reic'hs es Cuntradas Cuntradăs, Regeu da Cézembre, Avötz da Pengöpäts Péngöpäts es las Nouas Nouăs Falklands, Zefençadeir del Feitz, Duceu dallas Forziuns Armeschti, Vice-Regeu da Hoxha es Vicar d'Atatürk, tiind tischind (how did this happen?) estescu informescu par Noastra Secretar d'Estat, es actind in acurd cün Org.VI.9, apüntent perventüră sa com'el (så here is 1) misspelled and 2) a very weird word choice -- it means "so", not "as") Seneschal del Regipäts Talossa el Pü Þonoresc Txoteu É. Davinescu.

Tiind Tischind reçeitescu del aðviçéu da Noastra Seneschal dels individuais q' qi o (qi does not contract with following vowels) volt servar in Noastra Governmaintsch, Noi façent ocså acestilor apüntamaintschen, es lor comandent à servar el Legeu Orgänic es sieu Regeu àl miglhor da sieux capacitaes.

[li$i][ul]Dama Miestra Schiva Damă Miestră Schivă (re: misspelled names, see footnote 2) sa come la Distain es Avocat l'Avocadă-Xheneral[/ul] (the default gender of a word is used when the correct one is either unknown or irrelevant, neither of which is the case here)
[ul]Sir S:reu Gödafrïeu Valcádac'h Válcadác'h sa com'el Ministreu dal Cúltură es el Ministreu dal Zefençù[/ul]
[ul]Ian Plätschisch sa com'el Ministreu dal Finançù[/ul]
[ul]Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù sa com'el Ministreu dels Afaes Utphätseschti[/ul]
[ul]Eðo Grischün Grischun sa com'el Ministreu à Savanar da Talossa àls Ultra-Fiovaes Folăs[/ul]
[ul]Françal I. Lux sa com'el Ministreu del Interiör[/ul][/li][/list]

Zonescu sub Noastra Noastră mha Rexhital à la Cità da Centennial in Colorado li ziua ziuă vaintsch-secund dal Juliă, in l'ár l'år 2021 dal salvaziun, el qareinçe-secund dal independençù da Talossa, es el sedeschlaiset d'Ár d'Ar röin.

              —  Ian Regeu


Footnotes:

• On the surface, gräts à is wrong in this context, since it means "thanks to" and not "by the Grace of", which would be par las merþedes da. But, considering that all other Romance languages use the same word in both constructions (e.g. grâce à and par la grâce de in French), one could make the argument that "grace" would be a valid meaning for el gräts and that par el gräts da is a valid translation for "by the Grace of". Gräts à would still be wrong here but it's interesting to consider.
• I hate misspelled names. I hate them so much that I wrote a blog post about it, albeit in Talossan... anyway, the rampant misspellings that float around on here are the bane of my existence, especially considering that the correct spellings are not recorded in one place. The Database, the Wiki, Talossa.Net and of course Witt all have different flavours of misspelled names, making it impossible for laypeople to figure out which one is actually correct! But -- none of this is the King's fault, of course, but arguably Miestră's. The misspelled versions of Válcadác'h, Grischun and for instance Mençei didn't catch on until Miestră used them. I understand how this happened, but it's still annoying. On that note, having a big canonical list of correct name spellings would be nice to have for this very reason.

That's it. Feel free to ask questions if you have any.

EDIT: I derive very little pleasure from these kinds of public corrections (they make me look petty), but it is my firm belief that if State institutions want to make use of the Talossan language, they should use it correctly. Luckily enough, I am also the Ladintsch Naziunal so providing translations for the State is literally my job, so I would be more than happy to assist His Majesty or the Government et al with this task and help correct these mistakes before they go out. Please please please contact me if you want or need my help.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I did most of the translating, and most of the mistakes are mine.  Kind of embarrassing to get publicly corrected like this, honestly.  I'll advise His Majesty to take you up on your offer and run translating through you, I think, and make it easier on everyone.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Kind of embarrassing to get publicly corrected like this, honestly.

It wasn't my intention to embarrass you or anyone else, so I deeply apologise. As I said, it's not fun for me either, and I only did it because not doing so as Ladintsch Naziunal would've been negligent on my part and tantamount to nonfeasance in my opinion.

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

Kind of embarrassing to get publicly corrected like this, honestly.

It wasn't my intention to embarrass you or anyone else, so I deeply apologise. As I said, it's not fun for me either, and I only did it because not doing so as Ladintsch Naziunal would've been negligent on my part and tantamount to nonfeasance in my opinion.

You could have privately messaged His Majesty instead of doing it in public.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

You could have privately messaged His Majesty instead of doing it in public.

Sure, but considering that my earlier public correction from April was seemingly ignored -- the original post by His Majesty remains unchanged with all its errors intact -- I fear that it would've just been quietly ignored instead of publicly.