"Compromise"

[GV]

I briefly had a post up asking why the whole thing was going to be kept a secret from voters, but I decided that there was no real need to make that point and I should just leave it.

Plans within plans...

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Why would a monarchist party who were genuinely interested in talking to Free Democrats about getting reassurances want to open themselves up to get the same levels of slander thrown at them that the Baron is throwing at the Free Democrats, for being traitors or sellouts or whatever?

[GV]

Why would a monarchist party who were genuinely interested in talking to Free Democrats about getting reassurances want to open themselves up to get the same levels of slander thrown at them that the Baron is throwing at the Free Democrats, for being traitors or sellouts or whatever?

It reminds me ever so slightly of why in part the Republic was so stubborn in not making a return in 2005.  We know in the Kingdom of that time, we would be looked upon as thieves and criminals not by everyone, but by enough people and enough day-to-day actives for our return for us to be a most unpleasant prospect.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Why would a monarchist party who were genuinely interested in talking to Free Democrats about getting reassurances want to open themselves up to get the same levels of slander thrown at them that the Baron is throwing at the Free Democrats, for being traitors or sellouts or whatever?

It wasn't slander to point out that there was no compromise, because republicans hadn't actually agreed to any deal (beyond their plans to take what they want now and come back for more soon). That's why you're now engaged in these secret negotiations! And it's not slander now to ask why this information has to be hidden from the voters until after the election. This is a democracy, not an oligarchy!

[esbornatfiglheu]

Speaking as someone who has spent a lot of time doing and creating various cultural things in our country, including some very recently, I can say that it's very hard.  There's not much support, either in real terms or even emotional ones, and it can feel like you're shouting into a void.  When I ran a D&D game or when I revamped the Zuavs, there was no infrastructure to support and not a lot of real community at the start.  (Not that other people aren't involved and contributing in an amazing way.)  And I'm not trying to whine about it, since I liked it and it was interesting, but it's hard to keep that up for long without burning out.  That's true about the pseudo-feudal things, too.

Awards and honours, excepting possibly the grants of arms should not be automatic or granted just willy-nilly.  That would truly rob them of import.

What I wonder, though, is perhaps there could be a nobility starter pack, for lack of a better term.  Something that gets people started in that train of action.  Like, a list of 5-6 accomplishments (or similar) earns you a Baronetcy (I think that's the lowest noble rank, but whatever).  That gives a way to get started to people who are interested in nobility and peerage.  Then anything beyond that is for extraordinary service (or just being the king's buddy as the case may be, since it is at their discretion).

I know this is similar to the Zuav system. But that could provide a scaffold for the entire Talossan honours system.  Be they military, noble, or scholarly.   

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Speaking as someone who has spent a lot of time doing and creating various cultural things in our country, including some very recently, I can say that it's very hard.  There's not much support, either in real terms or even emotional ones, and it can feel like you're shouting into a void.  When I ran a D&D game or when I revamped the Zuavs, there was no infrastructure to support and not a lot of real community at the start.  (Not that other people aren't involved and contributing in an amazing way.)  And I'm not trying to whine about it, since I liked it and it was interesting, but it's hard to keep that up for long without burning out.  That's true about the pseudo-feudal things, too.

Awards and honours, excepting possibly the grants of arms should not be automatic or granted just willy-nilly.  That would truly rob them of import.

What I wonder, though, is perhaps there could be a nobility starter pack, for lack of a better term.  Something that gets people started in that train of action.  Like, a list of 5-6 accomplishments (or similar) earns you a Baronetcy (I think that's the lowest noble rank, but whatever).  That gives a way to get started to people who are interested in nobility and peerage.  Then anything beyond that is for extraordinary service (or just being the king's buddy as the case may be, since it is at their discretion).

I know this is similar to the Zuav system. But that could provide a scaffold for the entire Talossan honours system.  Be they military, noble, or scholarly.

I like this as an idea for a way to formalize the process for Government recommendations. But you're also right that it's essentially the same system I came up with for the Zuavs. So I'd imagine we'd want to see it actually work for several years before we switched over the honours system to it. Definitely something to consider, though!

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

it's not slander now to ask why this information has to be hidden from the voters until after the election.

Well, not "the voters", just you.

If you're going to pour mud on anyone who disagrees with you, don't be surprised if people want to disagree with you privately.

However, I have no objection to you saying "these discussions are only happening because I'm such a great politician and brave truth-teller and I forced them into it". Sure, why not, you made it happen. Thanks.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Awards and honours, excepting possibly the grants of arms should not be automatic or granted just willy-nilly.  That would truly rob them of import.

What I wonder, though, is perhaps there could be a nobility starter pack, for lack of a better term.  Something that gets people started in that train of action.  Like, a list of 5-6 accomplishments (or similar) earns you a Baronetcy (I think that's the lowest noble rank, but whatever).  That gives a way to get started to people who are interested in nobility and peerage.  Then anything beyond that is for extraordinary service (or just being the king's buddy as the case may be, since it is at their discretion).

I know this is similar to the Zuav system. But that could provide a scaffold for the entire Talossan honours system.  Be they military, noble, or scholarly.

While as you know I have something of an allergy to feudal titles, I understand that many others love and treasure them. I like the idea of a cursus honorum in Talossa, that you can earn rank (for bragging rights only, no monetary gain or political privileges) by public service. But on the other hand, when we discussed this last time, some said it really was turning Talossa into an RPG. So this is definitely where I want the next Government to go re: "keeping the interest of newbies once they're citizens", but we need a plan and someone to carry it out.

Honestly, I think it should start even to qualify for citizenship. Bring back the civics test!

[esbornatfiglheu]

Awards and honours, excepting possibly the grants of arms should not be automatic or granted just willy-nilly.  That would truly rob them of import.

What I wonder, though, is perhaps there could be a nobility starter pack, for lack of a better term.  Something that gets people started in that train of action.  Like, a list of 5-6 accomplishments (or similar) earns you a Baronetcy (I think that's the lowest noble rank, but whatever).  That gives a way to get started to people who are interested in nobility and peerage.  Then anything beyond that is for extraordinary service (or just being the king's buddy as the case may be, since it is at their discretion).

I know this is similar to the Zuav system. But that could provide a scaffold for the entire Talossan honours system.  Be they military, noble, or scholarly.

While as you know I have something of an allergy to feudal titles, I understand that many others love and treasure them. I like the idea of a cursus honorum in Talossa, that you can earn rank (for bragging rights only, no monetary gain or political privileges) by public service. But on the other hand, when we discussed this last time, some said it really was turning Talossa into an RPG. So this is definitely where I want the next Government to go re: "keeping the interest of newbies once they're citizens", but we need a plan and someone to carry it out.

Honestly, I think it should start even to qualify for citizenship. Bring back the civics test!

I mean, ultimately the training wheels have to come off and people will need to figure out how to ride their own hobby-horses.  Whether that be political reform, media, or whatever it is that they want to do.  But some sort of "starter" experience might be just the thing.  I keep thinking about games that do indeed have a central quest and progression... but that most players eventually wind up making their own fun.

Does that mean a touch of gamification?  Perhaps, and I'm not sure that is necessarily a bad thing.  "From Esquire to Baronet" as a Talossan starter "mission."  Get people acquainted with how things work.  Maybe that's before they become eligible for arms?  Honestly, we might have a thing or two to learn from the SCA structure.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

If you're going to pour mud on anyone who disagrees with you, don't be surprised if people want to disagree with you privately.

Well said!  :D

[Ián S.G. Txaglh]

i am by no means conservative, and definitely not that type of spooked conservative who jumps up-and-down when the date on the calendar moves on. what even would be a problem if talossa turns republic? like someone is going to lose hir aristocratic sandbox, no more fancy and empty titles, no dandy CoA-s? or republic would be so unattractive to those new prospective citizens who today stay in lines before the gates of talossa and then when let in, they swirl in social and cultural activity?

This is pretty dismissive of aspects of the Monarchy that some people like a lot. Creating "vivid cultural life" is really hard, and I wouldn't scoff at anything that helps.

talossa rather needs vivid cultural life than vain symbols. or we're going to turn into a dusty museum. don't get me wrong, i love museums, but just as deposits of well-organised artifacts, not a place to live.

People have been saying this for years, but I don't see how getting rid of the Monarchy, or putting its powers under some other body, would help at all. The problem you are diagnosing is not the fault of the Monarchy; rather, of general apathy.

i am not saying we should abolish monarchy to save talossa from its slow cultural decay, i am just asking, what for a change would it cause if it happens and if it is automatically for bad.

i am aware that monarchistic aspects of talossa are attractive to people especially those coming from an environment that lacks this kind of glitter or who have some feeling directly for monarchism. and i know quite some are already here.

i do not have it, i played kings and emperors when i was younger and i resigned to that kind of fun around age 18. when i joined back in my 25th the wagon of microethnicism, i was more interested in model society and suchs. now, when i turned 50, i am more into friends and kinda playful environment where things happen.

i am by no means an ideal talossan, i know. if, i would like to be a royal jester, a pricky prankster, wilie coyote of red-and-green, but i understand people here like it more seriously ;)

i also admit that i cause my fair share of damage to talossa by not participating actively as often as it would be necessary to fuel up the process of vivid culture. la cupâ à mhe. where are those times i could sit at penguinean disco board for hours a day... today, as we say here, too many hunted hares cause the wolf to die of hunger. but as they were saying in saloons of the wild west, do not shoot the pianist, he's trying his best.

[xpb]

From Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language

The question is King vs kingless or kinglike
The "compromise" is to transfer from a dynastic system to an incremental lockstep political elected position.  A desired reallocation of power from those who hold it by those who desire same but don't wish to follow the existing law regarding replacement and use that as a false front for fundamental change.

The choice is King or Queen and Kingdom or Republic with something at the top with whatever name but not the meaning.

[Tierçéu Rôibeardescù]

6: a man who moves all the way across the board and is crowned and then can move in any direction

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

The question is King vs kingless or kinglike
The "compromise" is to transfer from a dynastic system [...]

The status quo Talossan monarchy is not hereditary. We have no dynastic system.

[xpb]

The question is King vs kingless or kinglike
The "compromise" is to transfer from a dynastic system [...]

The status quo Talossan monarchy is not hereditary. We have no dynastic system.

You are correct in terms of heredity.  The King does currently serve as follows:

"The King of Talossa is King John I, until his demise, abdication, or removal from the throne. Should the King at any time renounce or lose his citizenship, that renunciation or loss shall be deemed to imply his abdication of the Throne. Upon the demise, abdication, or removal from the Throne of the King, the Uppermost Cort shall be a Council of Regency."

The King lives.  To my knowledge he has neither renounced not lost his citizenship.

Thus it is incumbent upon those who wish to remove him to make that effort under existing law, not to move the goalposts

(Sorry about previous typos from phone entry)