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Author Topic: 55RZ21 does not mean we have to or should dethrone John.  (Read 257 times)

Offline GV

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55RZ21 does not mean we have to or should dethrone John.
« on: July 21, 2021, 11:45:54 PM »
(Personal statement by GV and not a FreeDems party statement)

John Lupul's conduct from August 2020 through March 2021 continues to be apalling, and it is true that situation has been the direct catalyst for 55RZ21 having legs. 

But the day is inevitable when Talossa will have a future rogue monarch. 

On that day, we will be very glad 55RZ21 or something like is around.

Vote with the long eye to a post-John future. 

Votez 55RZ21

GV, Senator for Fiova

Offline Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: 55RZ21 does not mean we have to or should dethrone John.
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2021, 01:55:18 PM »
The bill does remove His Majesty from the throne, though.  He has served more than seven years, so the last provision of the bill would automatically dethrone King John and immediately institute a Council of Regency.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

    Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
    Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline GV

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Re: 55RZ21 does not mean we have to or should dethrone John.
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2021, 02:06:23 PM »
The bill does remove His Majesty from the throne, though.  He has served more than seven years, so the last provision of the bill would automatically dethrone King John and immediately institute a Council of Regency.

True.  But the National Convocation could quite easily and probably would put him right back.

What is wrong with holding any future Talossan monarch officially accountable?

Unless John has somehow found the fountain of youth.  Perhaps there is something the King should let us in on?

Offline Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: 55RZ21 does not mean we have to or should dethrone John.
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2021, 03:56:25 PM »
What is wrong with holding any future Talossan monarch officially accountable?
Nothing at all.  The current or any future Ziu could dethrone His Majesty with a supermajority amendment at any time and submit it for approval via referendum.  The king could -- at most -- delay such an action by a single Clark.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

    Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
    Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline GV

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Re: 55RZ21 does not mean we have to or should dethrone John.
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2021, 08:04:18 PM »
What is wrong with holding any future Talossan monarch officially accountable?
Nothing at all.  The current or any future Ziu could dethrone His Majesty with a supermajority amendment at any time and submit it for approval via referendum.  The king could -- at most -- delay such an action by a single Clark.

Splendid.  I'm glad you are supporting 55RZ21.  ;-)

Offline Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: 55RZ21 does not mean we have to or should dethrone John.
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2021, 08:32:18 PM »
What is wrong with holding any future Talossan monarch officially accountable?
Nothing at all.  The current or any future Ziu could dethrone His Majesty with a supermajority amendment at any time and submit it for approval via referendum.  The king could -- at most -- delay such an action by a single Clark.

Splendid.  I'm glad you are supporting 55RZ21.  ;-)
What?  No, I definitely don't support eliminating the monarchy and replacing it with a regularly-elected president/king.  The process I described is what's currently the law -- the accountability you mentioned.  If you thought I was describing the proposed law, then I am doing a very bad job of explaining my position, and I apologize.

Okay, so just to be 100% clear: The proposal (55RZ1) would change the current law.  The supermajority amendment I mentioned is already the law, but the proposal would be adding on a whole new process.  The first thing it would do would be to depose King John immediately upon taking effect.  I guess we already discussed that.  All royal power would pass to a Council of Regency (the Cort pu Inalt) at that moment, and the throne would be vacant.  Then a discussion would occur which would include most citizens except the newest ones (something like 70-80 people), in which they might select a successor.  If they can't agree on anyone with a 2/3 majority, the throne stays empty until they do.

If someone campaigns well enough to build support, they will be elected the new "king" for a term of seven years.  Their fourth and fifth years will be their campaigning years, since at the end of their fifth year in office, an election is held.  At that point there are three possible outcomes:
* If they are re-elected, then they continue to serve.
* If a rival president/king wins, then the incumbent spends the last full year of their term as a lame duck (someone with all the powers of the office but who will soon be leaving it).
* Or maybe they aren't elected but neither is a successor, in which case they spend the last year trying to sway the convocation their way with campaigning.

I don't think that whole process -- which is proposed in 55RZ1 -- is a good idea and I do not support it.  I think it's bad for Talossa to have regular partisan elections for the "king," for both practical (we have a very fluid system with few checks) and symbolic (it's boring) reasons.  I also think that this is only the first of further reforms, and that things like the honours system would be next on the chopping block.

So, sorry if I was being confusing or just communicating poorly.  I hope that I've explained myself better.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

    Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
    Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline GV

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Re: 55RZ21 does not mean we have to or should dethrone John.
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2021, 10:23:08 PM »
Splendid.  I'm glad you are supporting 55RZ21.  ;-)
What?  No, I definitely don't support eliminating the monarchy and replacing it with a regularly-elected president/king.  The process I described is what's currently the law -- the accountability you mentioned.  If you thought I was describing the proposed law, then I am doing a very bad job of explaining my position, and I apologize.

Haha, I was trying to innocently troll you, that's all.  I know precisely what your position is.  :-)

Why John may be in real danger of losing the throne: it is the opinion of many he no longer cares about the country and is only staying in office out of spite.

I will not go into detail as to what John can do to defuse this situation.  For fifteen years, he has known what to do.  Yet, he refuses to do so. 

I guess he wants to be thrown out onto the street on his arse?  Why?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 10:24:51 PM by GV »

Offline Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: 55RZ21 does not mean we have to or should dethrone John.
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2021, 10:53:34 PM »
Haha, I was trying to innocently troll you, that's all.  I know precisely what your position is.  :-)

Why John may be in real danger of losing the throne: it is the opinion of many he no longer cares about the country and is only staying in office out of spite.

I will not go into detail as to what John can do to defuse this situation.  For fifteen years, he has known what to do.  Yet, he refuses to do so. 

I guess he wants to be thrown out onto the street on his arse?  Why?
Ah, I missed that you were just trolling me.  Ok.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

    Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
    Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline GV

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Fee, fie, foe, fum...
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2021, 01:19:38 AM »
Haha, I was trying to innocently troll you, that's all.  I know precisely what your position is.  :-)

Why John may be in real danger of losing the throne: it is the opinion of many he no longer cares about the country and is only staying in office out of spite.

I will not go into detail as to what John can do to defuse this situation.  For fifteen years, he has known what to do.  Yet, he refuses to do so. 

I guess he wants to be thrown out onto the street on his arse?  Why?
Ah, I missed that you were just trolling me.  Ok.

Good-natured trolls only with me...  Next time, I'll start spouting haiku.  I haven't written a haiku in a while. 

Friends do not let friends / stand by idly while GV / starts a haiku

I've a new number / Eight-seven-six five-three-oh / Ni-ee-yi-ee-nuh
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 01:21:54 AM by GV »