Is Talossa boring and annoying?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Topic for discussion: "The drop-off in Talossan activity is partly due to Organic/legislative requirements that require boring and annoying red-tape navigation before anything can be done, and this applies equally to Government as well as private activity."

Honestly, I'm beginning to think that solutions to problems tend to turn into worse problems, and I raise the State Opening of the Cosa as an example. This was suggested by my party as "something fun to do"; a little ceremony which would give the King a cultural duty. And now it's just degenerating into a chore that requires messy and unpleasant organisation, and crucially the King doesn't seem to want to do it, but we have to do it because it's the law.

[Ián S.G. Txaglh]

Topic for discussion: "The drop-off in Talossan activity is partly due to Organic/legislative requirements that require boring and annoying red-tape navigation before anything can be done, and this applies equally to Government as well as private activity."

Honestly, I'm beginning to think that solutions to problems tend to turn into worse problems, and I raise the State Opening of the Cosa as an example. This was suggested by my party as "something fun to do"; a little ceremony which would give the King a cultural duty. And now it's just degenerating into a chore that requires messy and unpleasant organisation, and crucially the King doesn't seem to want to do it, but we have to do it because it's the law.

my answer is NO.

the primary problem, imho, is the ReaLife^TM outside of talossa, for me definitely. secondary one, no new blood.

i know that in this micronation, they had problems regarding extramural activities of citizens and very low intramural activity. people had almost no time to do the time-consuming (and seen-from-outside) nonsensical stuff they were able to do before they had jobs, spouses, kids, households. so they had simplified every aspect of running the micronation, they left just the bare-bones, they went hibernating, they just re-animate the corpse of the micronation from the dead whenever they have time to meet. and time-to-time whenever they have little time spared to translate a page, carve an artefact, write a piece of history page.

any simplification of talossan matters will end up the same. talossa either survives by this kind of hibernation or by radical changes to its appearance (not laws and suchs) to attract new people or it dies. i may be famous for such prophecies since republic, but tell me, how wrong am i?

people from the old guard are busy somewhere else, new people get hardly involved. young people of today are attracted to more vivid places and the internet is today full of shit much more interesting than talossa, honestly. social networks are consuming enormous amounts of free time to such kind of young people who would be able to contribute to talossan matters in the times before social networks (and other such sticky stuff popped up). boy, i am an average boomer who just to go through his YT stuff every week spends three to four hours, and i am subscribed only to selected bass playing, educational, linguistic, scientific or critical thinking channels, no pinky crap. not talking about jobs and family. this summer i had two weeks of holidays, the rest of my leave (as a teacher i have 6 weeks) i spent wurcking, cos during holidays it is the only time i am not distracted by dozens of small everyday administrative routine tasks.

we have to admit that the form of the nationette, as we have it, outlived itself in 2021. we would survive with the daily or at least weakly feed on social networks, but as a kinky old fashion disco group, we are dinosaurs only waiting for our chicxulub asteroid. original talossa was a regional-based, face-2-face thing, full of testosterone and ambitions of people with quite some free time; appropriate form to its time. what are we now? band of mid-aged guys who have often more important things to do, with a platform attractive to youngsters as teletyping to someone who in 1995 discovered the internet. do the math for yourselves.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

For the record, I am 22 years old. I believe I was 15 when I joined. Talossa had no problem with activity or immigration pull back then in 2014 despite forums having been thoroughly outdated already. And there have been plenty of people my age who joined Talossa since then as well. How do you explain that?

It's true that Talossa will never get mainstream appeal. I just don't think we need it.

EDIT: The biggest issue I see is that politicking, which has virtually always been the main pull into Talossa next to the language, is boring as hell. You become a member of a party, you get a safe seat in the Ziu, you vote shit up and down, that's it. Theres no interactivity there at all. There is no life whatsoever in the entire process, and I say this as someone who watches plenary sessions of the Bundestag for fun!!

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu, O.SPM]

For the record, I am 22 years old. I believe I was 15 when I joined. Talossa had no problem with activity or immigration pull back then in 2014 despite forums having been thoroughly outdated already. And there have been plenty of people my age who joined Talossa since then as well. How do you explain that?

It's true that Talossa will never get mainstream appeal. I just don't think we need it.

EDIT: The biggest issue I see is that politicking, which has virtually always been the main pull into Talossa next to the language, is boring as hell. You become a member of a party, you get a safe seat in the Ziu, you vote shit up and down, that's it. Theres no interactivity there at all. There is no life whatsoever in the entire process, and I say this as someone who watches plenary sessions of the Bundestag for fun!!

Marcel,
I think you're on the nose here but I pose to you this question. What is it you would want to do that you think would be interesting to others?

I want to see more activity and people enjoying all things Talossa... not just political stuff. I would love to see new options but I think one of the most important things is the new things that start organically.

Find an area you're interested in and make something new! Even if not "my thing", you'll have my support!

Davinescu

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

The biggest issue I see is that politicking, which has virtually always been the main pull into Talossa next to the language, is boring as hell. You become a member of a party, you get a safe seat in the Ziu, you vote shit up and down, that's it. Theres no interactivity there at all. There is no life whatsoever in the entire process, and I say this as someone who watches plenary sessions of the Bundestag for fun!!

But that was always the case. It has never been different. In the old days before the Hopper all there was was up-and-down votes on the Clark.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

But that was always the case. It has never been different. In the old days before the Hopper all there was was up-and-down votes on the Clark.

The way I understand it, all that means is that going back to the pre-Hopper way of conducting business is counterproductive and only makes Talossan politics less appealing than it already is.

[GV]

But that was always the case. It has never been different. In the old days before the Hopper all there was was up-and-down votes on the Clark.

The way I understand it, all that means is that going back to the pre-Hopper way of conducting business is counterproductive and only makes Talossan politics less appealing than it already is.

The Hopper is a beautiful thing.  Marcel's right.  Before the Hopper, putting bills together in an organized fashion was catch-as-catch-can.

We need to re-discover our roots.  www.libraryoftalossa.com is here for all of us.

GV

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Anyway, there's an elephant in the room that is being ignored. And that is that we are at the end of a long cycle of political struggle which has lasted since the start of the last Cosa. The losing side are tired, exhausted, and resentful at the people who switched sides just at the point we could have won. And the last thing we want is the representative of the winning side coming up with a list of what we should be doing. Many of us are not sure we want to keep doing Talossa at all under this King.

We might get over that feeling, but give us time and stop trying to dance on the graves of our hopes for Talossa.

As to rediscovering our roots, we still need a formal introduction to Talossan history and culture which newcomers are required to familiarise themselves with. I found myself unsure when the drama re: I. Canún broke out and had to scour OldWitt to find out, that's how much we've become forgetful.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

The way I understand it, all that means is that going back to the pre-Hopper way of conducting business is counterproductive and only makes Talossan politics less appealing than it already is.

Er, yeah; my point is that Ziu procedure is not any more boring than it ever has been.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Er, yeah; my point is that Ziu procedure is not any more boring than it ever has been.

That's fair. But what does it tell us if the number one reason why people immigrate is boring as hell, and has only been worse in the past? This may seem like exaggeration or some kind of rhetoric device, but I cannot imagine what anyone likes about it. You've been part of this system for years on end Miestră, what do you like about it?

We do get regular and predictable spikes of activity whenever there's a debate about the fundamentals, though I'm not convinced this constant struggle about constitutional basics is at all sustainable, because in exchange for temporary activity we get a population of tired, exhausted and resentful people. Not exactly fun.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

The Hopper is a beautiful thing.  Marcel's right.

Y'know, I have a separate issue with the Hopper as it functions right now. It's the place where anyone can submit draft bills and discuss them. And with anyone I mean literally anyone, regardless of whether theyre an MC, Senator, or anyone else. Since these discussions are not based on the individual chambers and non-MZs can submit their own drafts nowadays, I'm starting to wonder what we need the Ziu for at all.

If the entire process up until the quasi-automatic up-and-downvoting is open to the public, why does the public need people who vote on their behalf?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Er, yeah; my point is that Ziu procedure is not any more boring than it ever has been.

That's fair. But what does it tell us if the number one reason why people immigrate is boring as hell, and has only been worse in the past? This may seem like exaggeration or some kind of rhetoric device, but I cannot imagine what anyone likes about it. You've been part of this system for years on end Miestră, what do you like about it?

I like the possibility that it can be changed. And it has been changed, in the decade since Reunision, by continuous, grinding, not-fun political work. Imagine how horrible it was in the days before the secret ballot, where elections were long Wittenberg threads of people coming out of the woodwork to post "I vote RUMP! God Save The King!" and the same party won an absolute majority 9 times in a row. I like building a political majority for change, and we have changed a hell of a lot.

I understand that you're frustrated that so many Talossan politicians only care about elections and then Clark votes, and how the Cosa doesn't function as a debating chamber. Well; that's the way it's always been. You and I both have ideas for how it might change, but we'll have to fight tooth and nail for them for another few years, just like we did for the secret ballot or the 2017 OrgLaw. Up for the challenge?

We do get regular and predictable spikes of activity whenever there's a debate about the fundamentals, though I'm not convinced this constant struggle about constitutional basics is at all sustainable, because in exchange for temporary activity we get a population of tired, exhausted and resentful people. Not exactly fun.

Certainly, based on experiences in other countries, that when there are strong divisions over basic constitutional issues, the country will be unstable and have politics that are exciting in a bad way. In a way, I was not happy at the results of the Ranked Choice Referendum - even though my option was the victor - in that the two extreme options were the most popular, almost evenly matched, and the "compromise" options didn't get a look-in. That presaged a continuing conflict.

But what is to be done about it? Certainly unless John changes his ways significantly, there is probably a thin majority of Talossans who will continue to resent his rule and resent his partisans, whether they like the idea of monarchy in principle or not. And John has shown over the decade since Reunision that he will fight the diminution of the political role of the monarchy by any means necessary.

Unless something changes on the monarchist side, the only options for "peace" are for the forces who oppose the King to "give up" (which will probably mean giving up Talossa altogether, because we feel so disrespected) or a disaster like a new National Schism. It's a situation a lot like the United States, where a conservative minority fights tooth and nail against change to the fundamentals (enabled by their inbuilt political advantage) and a progressive majority becomes increasingly despondent of having to administer a system which is designed to continually humiliate them.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

I'm starting to wonder what we need the Ziu for at all.

For elections, which are the only thing which many Talossans will do any more, and that's partly only because it's compulsory. We've tried a direct democracy system in Fiova and... well, you can see how enthusiastic people are about it.

I would be actually enthusiastic about watching you take over a provincial government and setting it up in the way you think Talossa should work. So much about what we do in this country, we do because of traditions. The Secretary of State sending out Clarks as opposed to two actual legislative chambers debating is the way it has worked since 1985, and the inbuilt conservative bias of our system means that's the way it'll stay indefinitely barring a real social movement.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

I understand that you're frustrated that so many Talossan politicians only care about elections and then Clark votes, and how the Cosa doesn't function as a debating chamber. Well; that's the way it's always been. You and I both have ideas for how it might change, but we'll have to fight tooth and nail for them for another few years, just like we did for the secret ballot or the 2017 OrgLaw. Up for the challenge?

I can't force MCs to take their job more seriously, no one can. As such, I have no hope that my ideas on how Talossan politics can suck less will ever come to fruition until the MCs themselves change their attitudes.

For elections, which are the only thing which many Talossans will do any more, and that's partly only because it's compulsory. We've tried a direct democracy system in Fiova and... well, you can see how enthusiastic people are about it.
[...]
I would be actually enthusiastic about watching you take over a provincial government and setting it up in the way you think Talossa should work.

Don't worry, I wasn't seriously suggesting abolishing representative democracy. It was more like trying to vent my frustration with this backwards hybrid of dysfunctional representative and unenthusiastic direct democracy we are operating under right now. Personally, Id prefer a functioning representative democracy over the status quo.

And to be honest, I have given up on provinces forever ago because of the thing I mentioned above: you cant force people to be enthusiastic about these things. If it's already not working nationally, why would you expect it to work in provinces with even fewer enthuiastic people and even less activity?

[xpb]

I'm starting to wonder what we need the Ziu for at all.

For elections, which are the only thing which many Talossans will do any more, and that's partly only because it's compulsory. We've tried a direct democracy system in Fiova and... well, you can see how enthusiastic people are about it.

I would be actually enthusiastic about watching you take over a provincial government and setting it up in the way you think Talossa should work. So much about what we do in this country, we do because of traditions. The Secretary of State sending out Clarks as opposed to two actual legislative chambers debating is the way it has worked since 1985, and the inbuilt conservative bias of our system means that's the way it'll stay indefinitely barring a real social movement.

Indeed, operation of concepts at the provincial level would be an excellent precursor to proposals for the scope of the realm.