I too wish to apologize humbly, The quick adjustment lead to quick decisions being made which intaltally I was trying to avoid. We have all been rubbed the wrong way for to long by this debate. I now will begin trying to make right this wrong. I truly dont want to fight like this anymore, I want to find a better way and with everyone's help I hope to make the best of this and make talossa the best dham country we can. Because at the heart we all love talossa or we wouldn't be so passionate about it.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on April 09, 2021, 06:15:27 PM

Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on April 09, 2021, 03:35:45 PM
So you want the republic back again?

I and (the majority of) the other Free Democrats want the Historic Compromise, as contained in 55RZ21 - a King, up for re-election every 7 years. The LCC seem to have thrown their former leader, Senator Plätschisch, overboard because of his support for that. But a compromise is the only way to put an end to these arguments for a significant number of years.

If you really want these arguments to stop (for most people - of course there will remain die-hard Republicans and die-hard Monarchists, both minorities), let's all support the compromise.

There is more to the party than meets the eye.
Senator Plätschisch very much stood down of his own accord, however we are as of this moment moving the party lines in time before the next election.

The Great compromise is indeed so momentous that it does need to be considered. Fundamentally I want the mudslinging to stop, if that wasn't evendent from my first post then I do apologize, but you must surely understand that this discussion of monarchy Vs republic has gone on so long and been at the heart of this quagmire that we are all still a little wounded by it all.

If elected party leader, I would wish to extend the olive branch iin the form of cross party talks. Would that be agreeable to you?

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on April 09, 2021, 05:11:02 PM

Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on April 09, 2021, 03:35:45 PM
So you want the republic back again? As noted... How well did that do? You where down to 20 members and no activity? And you want to return to that? You returned to the fold to mold the kingdom back to your own image, doing away with king and regent, doing away with active citzans (perticulely those who disagree with you) and to hell with everything else. The republic didn't work or you would have let go, moved on and left the monarchy in the dust, but you didn't and apprently you couldn't let go because of what King Ben did to you. You Brought that attitude back with you, how dare king John succeed where you failed, how dare he re-envigarate the kingdom with out you, how dare he not call you back to the fold knowing that you would most likely hate him because you hate what he stands for, he has succeeded where Ben failed and you hate him for it. Plain and simple.


I already want withdraw my candidature, because I already can't stand for what I believe him without getting attacked form all angles. Even our Regent had to take a step back when you and he agruged to the point that there was no going back, he returned.

Id even go so far and renounce my citzanship too, but what would that change? Another monarchist run out of town who dared to raise his head. Oh no I'm staying. I brought myself a popcorn machine.

I am sorry, but i feel like you have taken this whole thing out of proportion, both yourself and the other monarchists, From my own recollections of being a citizen of Talossa, the monarchist only started to leave once they were voted out of power, and a different ideology was starting to win elections, whislt i would not have begrudged some unhappiness there, what i do think is an issue is that there were alot of platitudes given by the other side, with no constructive debate around the issues, and no offering suggestions, or even forming a coherent opposition. Yes in politics, it is hard to loose, but that doesnt mean that you stop fighting for what you believe, and besides a strong stance on keeping the monarchy, there have been no suggestions, outside the compromise bill of late (which came from the referendum result) from your side on how best move Talossa forward, whilst tearing down what the Government has been doing in what our side belives to be the best for talossa.

All, i think our side is wanting, is for your side to stop playing the victim, grow up, and act reasonable, and be a true opposition, with plans, and ideas of your own, which will help move talossa forward, and create a good political debate again. Not the disillusioned self pity your side has had the past, how many years. Also dont blame us for your members dropping from Talossa, they were not bullied, or driven out, they left because they lost and couldn't deal with how things were changing, and couldnt come up with their own ideas of a platform to win over the voting public of Talossa. Which is THE JOB of an OPPOSITION, and isnt to put their head in the sand and pretend that nothing has changed. As things have, especially with the recent actions of the King, and the divisive choice of regent.

Please do not take this as a personal attack for yourself or your side of the political spectrum, as it isnt meant to be, i am only intending this to be constructive criticism, and i hope that you take the lessons in this as intended, and not on attack on what you believe, as i do not want politics to revert to the mud slinging it has been for so long, but to actually be a constructive debate, but that means that you have to accept your ideas might loose, and then adapt with the times, and not get stuck in the past, and giving up on the political discourse of Talossa. as that is the true cancer of Talossan politics, giving up on it just because what you want doesn't come to pass, instead of sticking around to fight your corner, in a principles and respectful manor. i cant say that we have been completely clean in our conduct of politics, but we come up with ideas all the time, and do our best, sometimes they work, sometimes they dont, that is politics, we dont Give up, we continue the fight to make talossa a great place to be, and that drive, is what the opposition has lost from my persepctive.

Disagreements and losses are bound to happen, but that does not translate to personal attacks, it just means we disagree, and try to persuade other of why we believe our actions are right, and to take the loss personally, ill becomes us as a country.

We are all part of a unified Talossa right now, and it is upto us to step upto the place and work out how to keep both sides in an arrangement they can live with, which means communication and working together, even if that is through the discourse of debates. But that also means that both sides have to come to find common ground, and i believe the compromise is that. And if your side is unwilling to accept that something needs to change for talossa to move forward and thrive, and digging you head in the sand, then what is any of us even doing here?

Anyway sorry for the long, not massively coherent rant, these are jsut my current thoughts about the discussion in this thread right now.

You have been by far the most coherent today.

As I said I'm not going anywhere.

Thank you for your comment as I do appreciate your feedback.

Ok let's try this again shall we.

I'm sick of of mudslinging, we all need to stop. How do we go about this? And by this, not a temporary truce, permanent change. It's not as simple as just you no... not, as at this point it's mostly unavoidable between our two camps.

Because we tried just not doing it and it ended up with me snarky comment and the gloves where of again.

Rz21 contra
Rz22 contra
Rz23 per
Rz 24 contra

Voc: Non

So you want the republic back again? As noted... How well did that do? You where down to 20 members and no activity? And you want to return to that? You returned to the fold to mold the kingdom back to your own image, doing away with king and regent, doing away with active citzans (perticulely those who disagree with you) and to hell with everything else. The republic didn't work or you would have let go, moved on and left the monarchy in the dust, but you didn't and apprently you couldn't let go because of what King Ben did to you. You Brought that attitude back with you, how dare king John succeed where you failed, how dare he re-envigarate the kingdom with out you, how dare he not call you back to the fold knowing that you would most likely hate him because you hate what he stands for, he has succeeded where Ben failed and you hate him for it. Plain and simple.


I already want withdraw my candidature, because I already can't stand for what I believe him without getting attacked form all angles. Even our Regent had to take a step back when you and he agruged to the point that there was no going back, he returned.

Id even go so far and renounce my citzanship too, but what would that change? Another monarchist run out of town who dared to raise his head. Oh no I'm staying. I brought myself a popcorn machine.

Quote from: GV on April 09, 2021, 08:42:53 AM

Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on April 09, 2021, 07:48:15 AM
I have no insider knowledge for you, however again we are all entitled as citzans of talossa to prioritize or extra talossa activities should we see fit as we must respect each other in that.

Not when he is well and is monarch.  If I can go incommunicado for one week as PM (way back when) and have the country up in arms, we can get up-in-arms over King John's rest and relaxation.

Who are you to talk of his health? Maybe he does not see talossa a safe space anymore for him to divulge his personal, private information. That can include his health (both physical and mental),his personal circumstances,  his professional work life balance. If he wishes not to disclose that information it is his prerogative.

We already have had citzans of talossa been the subject of targeted attack on this right to a private life though the contacting of someone's manager at work, a threat to there professional livelihood.

When I first joined talossa back in 2014 I never dreamt of such a thing occurring. This was a fun, vibrant place as you have prointed out in your previous post. We should not attack each other to a point where people have to re-evaluate weather continued engagement could put there professional lives at such a risk.

We have rights to our own privacy and no law in talossa will and shall never infringe that right.

From my perspective my facts are correct. We have had a drop off activity from long term citizens of talossa. Disenfranchisement is often cited as the reason. As leader I will attempt to reach out to these citzans to hopefully bring them back into the fold. If your having a mental health brake from talossa that is perfectly acceptable, which is as I have already said, applies to everyone. I myself required this in recent times for medical reasons. I see the referendum as what it was constently spouted as, non legally binding and of people currently active. That currently active majority is mostly republicans because more monarchist and conservatives have been driven away by aggressive retoric. Shout at all the people that disagree with you untill your the only one left in the room, then elect yourself president as you have the majority.

As has been said this is a leadership 'election' and I welcome any of my fellow LCC members to also run for the position. I don't wish to argue with them, I wish to build each other up.

I have no insider knowledge for you, however again we are all entitled as citzans of talossa to prioritize or extra talossa activities should we see fit as we must respect each other in that.

Quote from: GV on April 08, 2021, 11:33:25 PM
[Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù:]

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on April 08, 2021, 04:56:56 PM

Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on April 08, 2021, 04:42:28 PM
Long term citizens have felt so ostracised, belittled, silenced and canceled for their veiws

[Miestrâ:] Oh dear God. This is just the kind of discourse we don't need in Talossa.

If there is anything our King has proven over sixteen years of Talossanity, it's he's as strong as a lion and can speak for himself.  It's actually one of the things I very much like about him.  There have been moments where his inplacable and unphasable presence on the Throne of Talossa has been decisive and as someone put it some time ago in a different context, 'reassuring'.

John has not been silenced.  And he has not been 'cancelled'.  The present King of Talossa has chosen to remain silent, using the active @AlexanderDavinescu as a long-term proxy-monarch for the foreseeable future.  By doing so, John has opened the floodgates of criticism, the dehereditization of the monarchy, and possibly an early end to his reign.

As I have said before, he has established himself to be in good health and relatively crisis-free. 

In good conscience, therefore, we do not need to offer the King our thoughts and prayers for a specific set of circumstances and on his behalf, but instead can and must ask questions as to why the perpetually-inactive King of Talossa does not abdicate the Throne for someone - anyone - who actually cares to be active in doing Talossa while not relying on a long-term Regent and who has given the country no transparency in how long this regency will continue.

... I haven't even mentioned the king? If he wants a rest that's his right. If he wishes to. I am well aware he can talk for himself. I dont understand how on earth you got the above from what I said?

And this is where this conversation with you ends, with you using a false equivalency, hooking onto one word (disregarding everything else I have said) and acting like your the victim here and I'm not going to rise to it. Good day.

Long term citizens have felt so ostracised, belittled, silenced and canceled for their veiws and have since disengaged because they don't want to argue with people any more.

And now you claim that the majority now agree with you. Could it not be you have driven people away to a point the no longer wish to get involved with our policies because they are so disenfranchised with the entire process?

They may no longer be heard from but I will be their voice. I see them. If they wish to reach out to me my door as party leader will always be open.

I would hearby wish to submit my candidature for the position of party leader.

Dark have been my dreams of late, the outside world seems grimmer than before. I used to think of talossa as a safe harbor of fun an whimsy. With a King that was a kind, interesting and benevolent.

Now we have a government that claims to be acting in our interests, yet is tearing apart our nation, both emotionally and practically. If elected I will be engaging in discussion with the free democrats, I will call them out where I see it. However I am very much done with the protracted arguments driving this nation aprt, I am very much done. I fear that down we will reach a untenable situation that will drive us apart for good.

Im satisfied that should Ián Tamorán continue in his post or nominations be nessciery, that what has been outlined above should be sufficient.

I would say that I think the clerking of this bill without the improvements that were pointed out when originally posted is not in the spirit of what the hopper is for. Its intended for legislation to be discussed and improved for the betterment of our nation. If that improvement does happen I believe that my fellow members are within their right to be angry about it.

Ok so I'm back... Iyet I think it's lo late to rule on the latest bills. That is unfortunate. I will however say that due to concerns raised about it, the legal bill of crimes against talossanisity as currently written to my mind has skipped a key step in its writing process and has activitly not incorporated any feedback as to its nature. I believe a legal code is required to cover such crimes, however I agree there needs to be understanding of said laws set out. Using non native laws to enforce our own, with justices unfamiliar with said laws is a recipe for disaster in our courts.