The Keeping the Far More Progressive Law Progressive Bill

[Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat]

Gender is the social roles and expectations society put in you because of your sex [...]
We all decide on which part of the spectrum we are. That is gender identity.

This makes sense, however if these are the definitions that @Üc R. Tärfâ has in mind, then it seems nonsensical that the government could discriminate against you because of the expectation society puts on you.

You could argue that the government may discriminate based on how well you "fit" those societal roles/expectations, but again the only way to know that would be based on your gender identity. Which would make the inclusion of "gender" redundant given the inclusion of "sex" (presumably what genitals you have), and "gender identity" (where you choose to "present" on the masculine/feminine spectrum in your respective society).

But one of the things that always gets to me is when trans men students tell me they don't want to adopt masculine attitudes because they don't want to be assholes

As a man, I find this kind of offensive. As though the essence of masculinity resides in being an asshole. I have more thoughts, but I don't wish to derail the thread.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

But one of the things that always gets to me is when trans men students tell me they don't want to adopt masculine attitudes because they don't want to be assholes

As a man, I find this kind of offensive. As though the essence of masculinity resides in being an asshole. I have more thoughts, but I don't wish to derail the thread.

Like water off a duck's back

[Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat]

But one of the things that always gets to me is when trans men students tell me they don't want to adopt masculine attitudes because they don't want to be assholes

As a man, I find this kind of offensive. As though the essence of masculinity resides in being an asshole. I have more thoughts, but I don't wish to derail the thread.

Like water off a duck's back

Are you saying I missed the point, @Ian Plätschisch? Or are you implying that I'm being an asshole for disagreeing with the premise that masculine = asshole? I thought I understood, and I don't see how I'm being an asshole. If you don't mind, please PM me and explain what I'm missing. Like I said, I don't want to derail the thread, but I do want to understand.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

Hmm, there must be another meaning to that idiom that I didn't realize.

I was not saying you missed the point, I was saying that you should not let claims like that upset you in any way. The people that make them are so obviously wrong that they don't deserve any of your brain space.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Viteu]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen

I'll just leave this here.

[Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat]

Hmm, there must be another meaning to that idiom that I didn't realize.

I was not saying you missed the point, I was saying that you should not let claims like that upset you in any way. The people that make them are so obviously wrong that they don't deserve any of your brain space.

Sorry for the confusion.

Ohhhhhhh thanks for the clarification, now I feel silly ;D

I know that meaning, but I've also heard it used to say someone is missing the point. Similar to the phrase "it went over their head". I'm also sorry for the confusion  :)

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen

I'll just leave this here.

I'm not exactly sure what your meaning is here, but if it is to say that I am engaging in such behavior, I am actually doing the exact opposite rejecting the entire premise

[Viteu]

This entire manufactured outrage of someone equating being an a*sh*le with masculinity sounds pretty #NotAllMen to me.

[Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat]

This entire manufactured outrage of someone equating being an a*sh*le with masculinity sounds pretty #NotAllMen to me.

1. My offense isn't manufactured just as, I assume, your offense at "gay erasure" isn't manufactured.
2. Taking offense is not the same as being outraged. Words have meanings.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

This entire manufactured outrage of someone equating being an a*sh*le with masculinity sounds pretty #NotAllMen to me.

My advice was to not be "outraged" about this, but if someone was, I don't think they'd be manufacturing anything. There are an abundance of examples of it happening, but again, they are of no importance.

[Viteu]

This entire manufactured outrage of someone equating being an a*sh*le with masculinity sounds pretty #NotAllMen to me.

1. My offense isn't manufactured just as, I assume, your offense at "gay erasure" isn't manufactured.
2. Taking offense is not the same as being outraged. Words have meanings.

1. oooookkkkaaayyy #NotAllMen

2. Kewl.

[Viteu]

This entire manufactured outrage of someone equating being an a*sh*le with masculinity sounds pretty #NotAllMen to me.

My advice was to not be "outraged" about this, but if someone was, I don't think they'd be manufacturing anything. There are an abundance of examples of it happening, but again, they are of no importance.

If it doesn't apply to you as you might presuppose, then why are you responding?

[King Txec]

Gentlemen,

This is a hopper thread and discussion about a bill under consideration. Please keep the discussion on that topic. The last few posts threaten to derail the thread.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

I can't precisely recollect where the discussion went before the first data loss, but in the coming days I'll update the proposal.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I can't precisely recollect where the discussion went before the first data loss, but in the coming days I'll update the proposal.

Are you planning on submitting this for the second Clark?

[Üc R. Tärfă]

I can't precisely recollect where the discussion went before the first data loss, but in the coming days I'll update the proposal.

Are you planning on submitting this for the second Clark?

Not sure, possibly third Clark.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

Update just to be clear: I will follow on this Bill the same "waiting period" I asked on this other bill.