Talossan Empathy Network - Mental Health Support Group

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

The past six months have seen a remarkable number of instances where citizens reference struggles with their mental health. Obviously COVID and economic difficulties are implicated somewhat. And I aware that none of us, insofar as I am aware, is a mental health professional but that does not mean we are unable to be sources of empathy and compassion for one another. The education of our personal experiences, while not qualifying us to be truly effective clinical providers, does allow us to provide the ear and eyes of someone who knows the path the other speaks of.

There will be inevitable, necessary considerations on privacy concerns which may vary by person. But in this thread and maybe a freestanding group in the future I would like to guage public interest in convening a mental health support group.
If it is warranted and advisable, then what are concerns that need to be addressed before launch?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

How would such a group deal with the fact that the way Talossans deal with each other - especially in politics - is the cause of a hell of a lot of distress and mental health symptoms? And that - I am going to assume - no-one on either side of politics is going to admit that they're doing anything wrong? "When we condescend to you, attempt to shame you, call you names, talk about you like you're a wicked person behaving unethically, it's because you deserve it and we're doing nothing wrong."

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

How would such a group deal with the fact that the way Talossans deal with each other - especially in politics - is the cause of a hell of a lot of distress and mental health symptoms? And that - I am going to assume - no-one on either side of politics is going to admit that they're doing anything wrong? "When we condescend to you, attempt to shame you, call you names, talk about you like you're a wicked person behaving unethically, it's because you deserve it and we're doing nothing wrong."

You've raised a perfect point of discussion for the group if that is a major source of distress, Miestra. I say that as someone who has also been on the receiving end of some remarkable vitriol. Maybe a first group discussion might center on how to bring the temperature down in partisan politics.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

@Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir you have been open about your mental health. I was thinking of you as someone who might participate in this effort. Would you be interested?

[Tric’hard Lenxheir]

As someone who has dealt with depression most of my life (including a suicide attempt) I think this could be a good idea. However, it could also lead to bigger issues. This will sound nuts but when I am feeling a little depressed and someone tries to "cheer me up" it actually makes me feel worse. If this idea helps one person through a difficult period though, it is worth trying.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

It is a major source of distress, and it has been for a long time - not just for me, but I can only tell my own story. What the King said in his recent "apology" actually struck a huge chord with me. I too ceased to find anything fun in Talossa ages ago, and I'm only here because of "duty", the fact that I can't live with myself unless I do what I say I'm going to do - and to pick up the ball if my political colleagues happen to drop it, because that's part of my duty. I have two Dandelions and I had to admit a while ago that I couldn't imagine encouraging them to become actively Talossan because it's so nasty. I have been telling people that I intend to withdraw from Talossa - partly or wholly - at the end of this term for that very reason.

The problem with any group of the kind you're suggesting would mean it would require us to sit and let our emotional defences down in front of people whom - subjectively - we consider to be the very causes of our mental distress, and unrepentant about being so. And I know for a fact that more than one Talossan considers me to be that person, for them. There is a lack of basic trust to be dealt with.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

As someone who has dealt with depression most of my life (including a suicide attempt) I think this could be a good idea. However, it could also lead to bigger issues. This will sound nuts but when I am feeling a little depressed and someone tries to "cheer me up" it actually makes me feel worse. If this idea helps one person through a difficult period though, it is worth trying.

First, thank you for sharing those details from your personal experience. Consideration of those bigger issues is important. The intent here is earnest and good but as is well known good intentions are not always interpreted as such nor do they always lead to the intended outcome.

I suspect maintaining an inclusive and unpressurized environment will be key.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

It is a major source of distress, and it has been for a long time - not just for me, but I can only tell my own story. What the King said in his recent "apology" actually struck a huge chord with me. I too ceased to find anything fun in Talossa ages ago, and I'm only here because of "duty", the fact that I can't live with myself unless I do what I say I'm going to do - and to pick up the ball if my political colleagues happen to drop it, because that's part of my duty. I have two Dandelions and I had to admit a while ago that I couldn't imagine encouraging them to become actively Talossan because it's so nasty. I have been telling people that I intend to withdraw from Talossa - partly or wholly - at the end of this term for that very reason.

The problem with any group of the kind you're suggesting would mean it would require us to sit and let our emotional defences down in front of people whom - subjectively - we consider to be the very causes of our mental distress, and unrepentant about being so. And I know for a fact that more than one Talossan considers me to be that person, for them. There is a lack of basic trust to be dealt with.

Miestra, I am only one person but I can tell you here publicly that I am willing to put down my emotional defenses if it means you participating in this group. In order to rebuild the trust, that I agree with you is very low, we are going to need these kinds of opportunities to be nurtured. Things will probably be halting initially but with practice and patience I believe that there are reasons for us being here together that are the surface on which trust can be reborn.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I appreciate these courteous words and we will see how things develop.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

In order to rebuild the trust

That is really the key here. Not to intrude and bring up politics, but many people don't trust you because of how you have conducted yourself in the past. Rebuilding trust must include you giving some account of those actions, and making credible commitments, not just vague platitudes.

I'm providing this feedback not to take a dump on your idea, but to give you an honest assessment to help make it work.

[Audrada Roibeardet]

I've dealt with (or in some cases completely avoided) mental health issues my whole life. Depression, addiction and Gender Identity Disorder are things I struggle with. Most of the time it's manageable, other times it's a living hell.

We all struggle with something and it's nice to have someone to talk to, even when we think we don't want someone by our side.

I think this could be really beneficial to Talossans who are struggling. I'll help out in whatever way I can.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

In order to rebuild the trust

That is really the key here. Not to intrude and bring up politics, but many people don't trust you because of how you have conducted yourself in the past. Rebuilding trust must include you giving some account of those actions, and making credible commitments, not just vague platitudes.

I'm providing this feedback not to take a dump on your idea, but to give you an honest assessment to help make it work.

To be clear, the lack of trust based on words and actions, Ian, is shared. And we can share examples until the cows come home if you like. The burden and expectation of commitments is shared by you and anyone else involved in this initiative. There are no clean hands here.

So, who is willing to come to the table for genuine and unflinching empathy and compassion rather than accusation and political way-laying? Are we ready to do the work now or not?

I think I am demonstrating my willingness to do so by starting this group and promising to Miestra to lay down emotional defenses. It looks like Miestra is considering it. Tric'hard might be in. Audrada is up for it. And Ian chimed in but appears noncommittal.

Anyone else?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

With respect, Brenéir, just this morning on Discord you responded to a rather nasty allegation aimed towards Ian P in particular with a "LMAO". That has dented my confidence that you understand what is necessary to do the kind of work you want to do. I honestly think this work is doomed from the start if people don't even understand how they might be, personally, making the lack of trust and the nasty atmosphere worse.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

To be clear, the lack of trust based on words and actions, Ian, is shared. And we can share examples until the cows come home if you like. The burden and expectation of commitments is shared by you and anyone else involved in this initiative. There are no clean hands here.

@Miestră Schivă, UrN it is almost like we have already started now. I am not going to give up.  :)
You asked me to be willing to let down my emotional defenses. I am now asking you to do the same.
Your feelings on this are valid and I respect them.
And I apologize if that post led you to doubt my sincerity and commitment to the rebuilding of trust.
Now to explain but not excuse as I believe a deepened mutual understanding is vital as we move forward.
My post on the Discord channel was to laugh because I was really tickled at the meme of Jeb Bush and the "please clap" reference (Honestly I am still laughing at that meme right now) and also the criticism of a change in government policy. I was not aware of that so it came as a surprise to me. But it had more to do with his deft meme usage and reference to a relatively obscure but memorable moment in recent American election campaigns.

Miestra, when I first saw your post I instantly assumed you were just coming up with a reason to not do something you were already skeptical of. But then I stopped, took some breaths, and tried to imagine and then remembered you as a mother of two dandelions, as a musician, as a speaker of lots of languages, as a New Zealander/Aotearoa (one of my favorite countries on the planet), and as a Talossan. After doing so, it became easier to think more of your feelings than my first reaction. I hope that my explanation and apology will keep us on the path to greater trust. And I hope you will start to think of me as more than whatever I exist as in your mind now.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

In order to rebuild the trust

That is really the key here. Not to intrude and bring up politics, but many people don't trust you because of how you have conducted yourself in the past. Rebuilding trust must include you giving some account of those actions, and making credible commitments, not just vague platitudes.

I'm providing this feedback not to take a dump on your idea, but to give you an honest assessment to help make it work.

To be clear, the lack of trust based on words and actions, Ian, is shared. And we can share examples until the cows come home if you like. The burden and expectation of commitments is shared by you and anyone else involved in this initiative. There are no clean hands here.

So, who is willing to come to the table for genuine and unflinching empathy and compassion rather than accusation and political way-laying? Are we ready to do the work now or not?

I think I am demonstrating my willingness to do so by starting this group and promising to Miestra to lay down emotional defenses. It looks like Miestra is considering it. Tric'hard might be in. Audrada is up for it. And Ian chimed in but appears noncommittal.

Anyone else?

You are very skilled at saying nothing in many words.

I don't speak for anyone but myself, but before I could engage with anyone in this sort of group, I would need to get into the specifics of why I don't trust them first. I imagine you would as well. Part of that unfortunately involves some blame. Handwaving about "genuine and unflinching empathy and compassion" accomplishes nothing because it has no credibility as of right now.

I should clarify that I am not interested in participating regardless of the friction between us; I thank God every day that I have close family and friends I can lean on. I am opining anyway because I think many others feel the way I do and I'm legitimately trying to help.

That being said, I would happy to hash out our differences with you, publicly or privately, for the purpose of "clearing the air" between us. Just know that I am not immediately going to tell you that everything is great.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

You are very skilled at saying nothing in many words.

Unfortunately Ian, this negated everything that came after it.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

You are very skilled at saying nothing in many words.

Unfortunately Ian, this negated everything that came after it.

Come on. That was a mild poke. If I had this standard, I could be blissfully ignorant of everything the Opposition has said so far this term.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I've dealt with (or in some cases completely avoided) mental health issues my whole life. Depression, addiction and Gender Identity Disorder are things I struggle with. Most of the time it's manageable, other times it's a living hell.

We all struggle with something and it's nice to have someone to talk to, even when we think we don't want someone by our side.

I think this could be really beneficial to Talossans who are struggling. I'll help out in whatever way I can.

@Audrada Roibeardet thank you for sharing your struggle here. For me, it has been Depression, Anxiety, and OCD. With OCD being the primary struggle every day. OCD is difficult because many people will boil it down to being high-strung or mildly eccentric. When it can be disempowering and embarrassing. It can also be the cause of some shame especially when family notice it and express helplessness in their desire to help.

Also, a quick note for anyone here, I can be an oversharer because I tend to believe that this kind of openness is an antidote to stigma.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Again, thank you for your courteous words below. I accept your explanation and sorry for misinterpreting. In that situation I was dumbfounded by what seemed to be real anger and resentment coming from someone else whom I considered a friend.

The problem I see is that Talossa has a long, long, very long history of being an extremely toxic environment full of bullying and abuse. During the last period of King Robert I's rule you would actually call it a cult. And in a way, that is still with us. I admire a concern for people's mental health, but without a wider discussion of how mental ill health is being caused by our swamp-like political climate and ways of dealing with each other, this will make about as much difference as raking the leaves over a toxic waste dump.

I think the problem is that you can never tell what someone's "triggers" might be. But when people are political opponents - or just don't like each other - but are stuck in a situation together over years, they learn what upsets people and how to get a gratifying emotional reaction from them. Like an old married couple, you know the idea? Take my case.  You won't be surprised to hear that depression and anxiety are constant companions for me, as well. I wouldn't precisely describe myself as OCD, but because of my abusive upbringing I do recognize that I have problems with perfectionism, and hypervigilance when it comes to threats to my sense of self.

Now: there is a certain Talossan, well known to both of us, who has a pattern of behaviour over more than a decade by calling me a liar, a cheat, corrupt, while himself telling what I consider to be outright lies about me, my motivations, and my principles. Because of my own abusive upbringing, that kind of language triggers panic reactions in me, and I'm trying to train myself out of just turning a firehose of rage back in response. I've had to misuse prescription medication to be able to sleep in some of these situations - I've had to just walk away from Talossa on other situations, and it looks like I'll have to do that again. Now: how would a mental health empathy group deal with that? Would it tell me: suck it up, you deserve what you get? Or would it tell me to just leave the country if I can't handle it? What could it actually do about a situation in Talossa which ruins my mental health?

But on the other side, there is certainly a problem with people being so thin-skinned that they can't handle honest criticism or even mild joking.Do you see the real problem I'm getting at here? That on one hand we have to be able to take our lumps; but on the other hand  actual abuse, slander, and deliberately "pressing people's buttons" have become standard weapons of political struggle. I can't imagine any mental health or empathy will help as long as we EITHER (a) don't know how much we're hurting people; (b) know we're hurting people, and we do it anyway because "they deserve it/it's funny/it'll win my political party support".

I want you to find one of the copies of KR1's Ár Päts on the Wiki and read what it says about me in particular. Imagine me putting up with that, and still coming back to Talossa. Nothing I've had in the years since has been worse - but it is poison. I am trying to get my point across without turning it into another political headbutting session. I hope you get my point.

@Miestră Schivă, UrN it is almost like we have already started now. I am not going to give up.  :)
You asked me to be willing to let down my emotional defenses. I am now asking you to do the same.
Your feelings on this are valid and I respect them.
And I apologize if that post led you to doubt my sincerity and commitment to the rebuilding of trust.
Now to explain but not excuse as I believe a deepened mutual understanding is vital as we move forward.
My post on the Discord channel was to laugh because I was really tickled at the meme of Jeb Bush and the "please clap" reference (Honestly I am still laughing at that meme right now) and also the criticism of a change in government policy. I was not aware of that so it came as a surprise to me. But it had more to do with his deft meme usage and reference to a relatively obscure but memorable moment in recent American election campaigns.

Miestra, when I first saw your post I instantly assumed you were just coming up with a reason to not do something you were already skeptical of. But then I stopped, took some breaths, and tried to imagine and then remembered you as a mother of two dandelions, as a musician, as a speaker of lots of languages, as a New Zealander/Aotearoa (one of my favorite countries on the planet), and as a Talossan. After doing so, it became easier to think more of your feelings than my first reaction. I hope that my explanation and apology will keep us on the path to greater trust. And I hope you will start to think of me as more than whatever I exist as in your mind now.

[King Txec]

I think that sometimes we forget that on the other side of the screen are real people with real lives, real trauma, real unresolved personal pain, etc.