Talossan Empathy Network - Mental Health Support Group

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I think that sometimes we forget that on the other side of the screen are real people with real lives, real trauma, real unresolved personal pain, etc.

The is so true here in Talossa and in so many other places online. My motto in my profile is from a famous manifesto written by Bertrand Russell and Albert Einstein and it says "Remember your humanity and forget the rest." With respect interactions online perhaps  it should read Remember THEIR humanity and forget the rest.

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

I appreciate Miestra and Breneir responses and I believe both of them are talking without a mask that they usually wear when they speak to each other. I find that refreshing.

I believe that is a the second time I've seen a real exchange of opposing ideas in a polite manner in my 70 days in here.

I understand being opponents for many years has a big impact on how you perceive someone else's words but I believe that doesn't give you the right to deliberately push people's buttons and call it "mild poke" while they're trying to achieve something good. Also, saying that you won't participate because "thank god" "you have friends and family" is something wild to say (I mean I feel like that sometimes but sometimes I don't.). I also understand we sometimes forget there's real people behind the screen as the Secretary said. I amsorry for every time I did that.

I see this thread as a try to cool down a few degrees the political temperature in Talossa. I will always welcome and encourage and try to help with that. Others too, I know.

As the "LMAO" situation, that reminded me of an exercise I made two of my students do where they almost fought each other while doing a video in front of the actors.
I made them do a list of all the things they have against the other, every time the other made them hurt and things they cannot forgive about each other. I gave them three days and thigs were amazing because they both got a list of like 3-4 things and half of them were misunderstadings. Both of them apologized and agreed to disagree in the other one. I believe that was one of the moments that I will forever treasure in my heart as a teacher. One of them flunked the class two months later lol, tho but that's not the point.
Maybe something like that can help cooling Talossa down because we all have lives and we all have things to do outside of here and we sure as hell don't have time to hold grudges, or at least we should aim to not do that.

Try to literally write down every grudge you hold against someone. That thing really helps when it is written down.

Maybe showing it to the other person (when both are cooled down and agreed to be polite) can have a tremendous impact.


That unfortunately is not related to the Mental Health Support Group but I think its aim is the same: to feel better and have better relationships with each other.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

I understand being opponents for many years has a big impact on how you perceive someone else's words but I believe that doesn't give you the right to deliberately push people's buttons and call it "mild poke" while they're trying to achieve something good. Also, saying that you won't participate because "thank god" "you have friends and family" is something wild to say (I mean I feel like that sometimes but sometimes I don't.). I also understand we sometimes forget there's real people behind the screen as the Secretary said. I amsorry for every time I did that.

I really don't appreciate this for two reasons:

1. When I criticized Brenier, I was not doing it just to push his buttons. I was pinpointing a real issue with this group that needed to be addressed. You can agree with me or not, or think I should have been nicer, but I stand by what I said. I sincerely believe Breneir can only "achieve something good" with this group if he considers my critique.

2. Breneir was point-blank asking me if I would join; saying no without explanation would have been unsatisfactory. I decided to take the opportunity to make a sincere expression of gratitude; apparently you are not inclined to give me the same grace you are giving others in this discussion. Certainly I am not inclined to share anything more.

Anyhow, this discussion is leading me to one of two conclusions, neither of which are good:
1. The TNC and the FreeDems both sling mud, but no one else notices when the TNC does it because they camouflage it.
2. The FreeDems really are the only party that sling mud, in which case I should leave Talossa immediately because I am not doing myself nor anyone else any favors.

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

Telling people that you won't join a Mental Health Support Group because thank god you have friends implies people needing Mental Health Support don't have friends. Perhaps I'm assuming wrong and if that's the case I understand.

When people communicate through text it's always difficult to get the full picture. Our past experiencies interfere and that's why I took it that way, maybe. And that's why Talossa is here. And that's why you only get bad conclusions, probably.

I try to not look at things through the TNCvsFreeDems lens. Perhaps you are projecting something in my comments? I honestly appreciated Miestra and the Secretary's comments.

I know all comments are tied to interpretation by the reader. I considered myself a neutral bystander reacting to every comment by itself, not taking sides.

Also, what an odd conclusions. I  was going to finish this post with "I shall abstain from commenting any more if it really makes you consider you staying in the very country you run, PM" but I know you are talking from a TNC-FreeDems pov and that's not really a comment to take seriously.  Or at least that's why I tell myself haha I mean I can't listen to a read word.

Also I believe I'm exposing myself in this post and exposed myself in the last one. I believe that is good. It means I'm willing to trust. I hope you can truts someone outside of your party later, truly. (And I know it won't be easy because... well, lots of stuff).

I believe that a future better than the present is achievable.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

Telling people that you won't join a Mental Health Support Group because thank god you have friends implies people needing Mental Health Support don't have friends. Perhaps I'm assuming wrong and if that's the case I understand.

I was acknowledging that many people have family and friends who are not of any support to them. I am very grateful not to be in that position.

I try to not look at things through the TNCvsFreeDems lens. Perhaps you are projecting something in my comments? I honestly appreciated Miestra and the Secretary's comments.

I know all comments are tied to interpretation by the reader. I considered myself a neutral bystander reacting to every comment by itself, not taking sides.

Also, what an odd conclusions. I  was going to finish this post with "I shall abstain from commenting any more if it really makes you consider you staying in the very country you run, PM" but I know you are talking from a TNC-FreeDems pov and that's not really a comment to take seriously.  Or at least that's why I tell myself haha I mean I can't listen to a read word.

I take you at your word that you believe you are a neutral observer. However, the fact that it always seems you are calling out particular people, but not others, for pushing people's buttons, when I think everyone is doing it, means one of two things:
1. You are not actually as neutral as you think you are
2. I am just imagining that other people are trying to push my buttons, but I am actually the only one pushing other people's buttons, in which case I should at least withdraw from politics and make everyone happier.

Also I believe I'm exposing myself in this post and exposed myself in the last one. I believe that is good. It means I'm willing to trust. I hope you can truts someone outside of your party later, truly. (And I know it won't be easy because... well, lots of stuff).

It may surprise you to learn that Dame Miestra and I were political opponents for most of the past seven years; I only joined the FreeDems last year. However, my relationship with her was (usually) nothing but cordial and constructive during that time. I assure you I am capable of trusting people from outside my party.

It may also surprise you that Breneir and I were in the same party on multiple occasions, first in the Moderate Radical Party of Talossa between 2015-2016, and then the League of Centre Conservatives from 2020-2021. Up until last year I always got along with him (and Baron Alexandreu, for that matter) just fine. I hope we can get back to that.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I appreciate Miestra and Breneir responses and I believe both of them are talking without a mask that they usually wear when they speak to each other. I find that refreshing.

Problem is - and Ian P is pointing this out as well - that your 70 days in Talossa is perhaps not giving you sufficient background to interpret what you're seeing. I'm trying my best to be honest/cordial with Breneir - and to his credit he appears to be reciprocating - but as Ian P has rightly pointed out, there is stuff that goes back years, what a Scientologist would call "breakdowns in Affinity, Reality and Communication". And my communication with Breneir in this thread hasn't even scraped the surface of that.

There was something that happened, whereby Breneir and Ian P turned from party colleagues to firm antagonists. To my mind, that's never even been sufficiently explained, let alone sufficiently dealt with, and it is the underlying reason why our two major parties currently have such an antagonistic relationship. Do you know what that thing was? If not, perhaps you should find out before commenting.

But: it goes the other way as well. Ian P is not an outlier in being a former political opponent of mine who is now an ally. The SoS, now our Party President, was an opponent, Senator Grischün was an opponent, and Justice V was quite a nasty opponent (man he was rude to me, lol). The short version of that story is that a lot of people who used to wholeheartedly defend the monarchy stopped doing so as the Monarch's active involvement in Talossa decreased.

The point of why I've been trying to delicately engage Breneir is that IMHO the basis for an "empathy network" has to be trust, and that trust can't exist in a situation of heightened partisanship. IMHO the only way to take down partisan heat is "truth and reconciliation" - that both sides have to admit they've done things that have hurt others. Ian P is criticising your "neutrality" as in fact suggesting that the nastiness in Talossa is only coming from one team. And if that were true, Ian P is correct - the only way that could be fixed is for that "team" (mine) to just go away and leave the good, decent people of the other team alone. But if instead the problem is a cycle of communication that has gone bad, then the only way to fix that is for both sides to own where we're making things worse. Does that make sense?

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

Telling people that you won't join a Mental Health Support Group because thank god you have friends implies people needing Mental Health Support don't have friends. Perhaps I'm assuming wrong and if that's the case I understand.

I was acknowledging that many people have family and friends who are not of any support to them. I am very grateful not to be in that position.

I try to not look at things through the TNCvsFreeDems lens. Perhaps you are projecting something in my comments? I honestly appreciated Miestra and the Secretary's comments.

I know all comments are tied to interpretation by the reader. I considered myself a neutral bystander reacting to every comment by itself, not taking sides.

Also, what an odd conclusions. I  was going to finish this post with "I shall abstain from commenting any more if it really makes you consider you staying in the very country you run, PM" but I know you are talking from a TNC-FreeDems pov and that's not really a comment to take seriously.  Or at least that's why I tell myself haha I mean I can't listen to a read word.

I take you at your word that you believe you are a neutral observer. However, the fact that it always seems you are calling out particular people, but not others, for pushing people's buttons, when I think everyone is doing it, means one of two things:
1. You are not actually as neutral as you think you are
2. I am just imagining that other people are trying to push my buttons, but I am actually the only one pushing other people's buttons, in which case I should at least withdraw from politics and make everyone happier.

Also I believe I'm exposing myself in this post and exposed myself in the last one. I believe that is good. It means I'm willing to trust. I hope you can truts someone outside of your party later, truly. (And I know it won't be easy because... well, lots of stuff).

It may surprise you to learn that Dame Miestra and I were political opponents for most of the past seven years; I only joined the FreeDems last year. However, my relationship with her was (usually) nothing but cordial and constructive during that time. I assure you I am capable of trusting people from outside my party.

It may also surprise you that Breneir and I were in the same party on multiple occasions, first in the Moderate Radical Party of Talossa between 2015-2016, and then the League of Centre Conservatives from 2020-2021. Up until last year I always got along with him (and Baron Alexandreu, for that matter) just fine. I hope we can get back to that.

I am surprised, yes.

I take it all back.

My bad.

Thank you for your contribution, Seneschal.

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

I appreciate Miestra and Breneir responses and I believe both of them are talking without a mask that they usually wear when they speak to each other. I find that refreshing.

Problem is - and Ian P is pointing this out as well - that your 70 days in Talossa is perhaps not giving you sufficient background to interpret what you're seeing. I'm trying my best to be honest/cordial with Breneir - and to his credit he appears to be reciprocating - but as Ian P has rightly pointed out, there is stuff that goes back years, what a Scientologist would call "breakdowns in Affinity, Reality and Communication". And my communication with Breneir in this thread hasn't even scraped the surface of that.

There was something that happened, whereby Breneir and Ian P turned from party colleagues to firm antagonists. To my mind, that's never even been sufficiently explained, let alone sufficiently dealt with, and it is the underlying reason why our two major parties currently have such an antagonistic relationship. Do you know what that thing was? If not, perhaps you should find out before commenting.

But: it goes the other way as well. Ian P is not an outlier in being a former political opponent of mine who is now an ally. The SoS, now our Party President, was an opponent, Senator Grischün was an opponent, and Justice V was quite a nasty opponent (man he was rude to me, lol). The short version of that story is that a lot of people who used to wholeheartedly defend the monarchy stopped doing so as the Monarch's active involvement in Talossa decreased.

The point of why I've been trying to delicately engage Breneir is that IMHO the basis for an "empathy network" has to be trust, and that trust can't exist in a situation of heightened partisanship. IMHO the only way to take down partisan heat is "truth and reconciliation" - that both sides have to admit they've done things that have hurt others. Ian P is criticising your "neutrality" as in fact suggesting that the nastiness in Talossa is only coming from one team. And if that were true, Ian P is correct - the only way that could be fixed is for that "team" (mine) to just go away and leave the good, decent people of the other team alone. But if instead the problem is a cycle of communication that has gone bad, then the only way to fix that is for both sides to own where we're making things worse. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense. I believed this thread was of a clear intention but that thing you mention taints literally everything in Talossan politics, I see. It didn't matter if the intentions of this thread was good, that something from the past will forever hunt the new things. I don't believe there will be a better time now haha. I'll see my way out.
Thank you Miestra for taking the time to give me context, I honestly appreciate it. :)

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

@Bråneu Excelsio  your contributions to this thread have been level-headed, empathetic, and helpful. And I hope you will continue to make them as you see fit. Your advice to me has helped to guide my responses. I will continue to "respond with love." :)

@Miestră Schivă, UrN What exactly do you need first from me in order to begin our trust-building journey?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

@Miestră Schivă, UrN What exactly do you need first from me in order to begin our trust-building journey?

Okay, you've asked me plain, and the best compliment I can pay you is to respond plainly.

Brenéir, the issue that I have - and it's certainly not one exclusive to you personally - is that, in my experience, you seem prone to hostile overreactions. Do you know the story of Sir Trotxa and the Killer Rabbit? Here it is:

This was during the National Schism, when Kingdom and Republic were not very friendly neighbours. Sir Trotxa da Betinéir of the Kingdom posted a picture of himself in a cardboard suit of armour from an activity with his Scout troop. Inxheneu Crova of the Republic made a joking reply and Photoshop: "Watch out for the Killer Rabbit!" based on that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. To those on the Republic side, this was a light-hearted jest as might be made among friends - as Ian Plätschisch might put it, a "mild poke". To Sir Trotxa and most on the Kingdom side, this was a deathly, killing insult, mocking something that was very important in Trotxa's life. We were even told that it had actually hurt Trotxa's Scouts, and their families (who showed them the photoshop, and why???).  Here's a sample of the drama.

Brenéir, the bad feeling between us - if I might say this - began with General Davinescu sending you a message which you interpreted as threatening and rude (and you had reason to feel that, admittedly. Txoteu's message was a blunder). You summarily pulled out of the 56th Cosa coalition. All the apologies that Txoteu made to you, and all my messages in which I begged you to reconsider, were simply ignored.

Now, you say that you were personally hurt by the legislative boycott. And that's a fair reaction. But before that we were hurt by what we saw as you just refusing to engage every time we asked what your suggestion was for monarchy reform. And before that, what we saw as an unnecessarily rude and personalised election campaign (also little things like, we congratulated the TNC after the election; you didn't congratulate us). And before that, turning against a proposal for monarchy reform that you yourself had supported in the election - and, I have to say it once again, never explaining why. So there is a whole history of "you offend us; we offend you"; but it goes back, as I see, to Txoteu's regrettable message and your reaction to it.

So there are two parts here. Firstly, I don't think A can feel emotionally safe around B, when A simply cannot predict if something they say or do will elicit not only an angry reaction from B, but an angry reaction which results in a collapse of communication, and resentment and conflict for maybe years after that. Secondly, there is a "cycle of conflict" problem. X feels they are justified in being hurtful to Y because Y was hurtful to X first. But then Y says something happened before that which made Y's behaviour justified. And so on and so on and so on. You end up in a South Africa/Northern Ireland situation.

In summary: I don't feel emotionally safe around you because I don't understand why we became enemies virtually overnight - or why you became a bitter opponent of a proposal we once worked together on. Because I don't understand the reasons for your reactions, I can't feel safe dealing with you because I don't know what I might do that might lead to further anger and hostility.

Does that make sense?

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Miestra, thank you for explaining. I am sorry that my words have led you to feel unsafe. Of course, I disagree that my reactions to Txoteu's threat were an overreaction. But, again in the absence of explanation, I can understand your conclusion. The problem is, we don't really know one another, and I am glad that the deficit in mutual understanding is decreasing as a part of this discussion. In my next response, I will explain my perspective on the what and why of what happened.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Reviewing for memory's sake.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Sadly, the questions I raised have never been answered.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Sadly, the questions I raised have never been answered.

If I recall correctly, I think we did engage in a rather long worded additional exchange privately via FB Messenger which had my final message on here as its starting point. I didn't think this left any outstanding questions but am still open. I bumped this as proof there have been good faith initiatives.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I remember that you never responded to my last message, but if you think that it didn't contain anything worth responding to, then we have to leave it there.

On the other hand; some of the issues I covered in the Friendly Chat with Bråneu, specifically about lack of trust, holding grudges, and the combination which has led to the current nasty partisan atmosphere. Maybe they deserve a fresh look.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I remember that you never responded to my last message, but if you think that it didn't contain anything worth responding to, then we have to leave it there.

On the other hand; some of the issues I covered in the Friendly Chat with Bråneu, specifically about lack of trust, holding grudges, and the combination which has led to the current nasty partisan atmosphere. Maybe they deserve a fresh look.

I think you closed with another appeal on monarchy reform which wasn't the intent of the outreach tbh, Miestra, so I didn't respond. After your fresh look please feel free to let me know if I am mistaken though.

[Ián Tamorán S.H.]

This thread has gone quiet for some time now.

(Note: Below, *I* and *you* are general terms - not references to any specific people other than those in conversation at that time).

Perhaps no-one has any more problems with their mental health and interaction with the universe? Hmmm... unlikely. "Support" and "criticism" are entirely different things, but (alas) the first morphs into the second, all too quickly.

There is a steadfast rule in dealing with someone else's emotional issues which is "If *I* am supporting *you* with empathy, then I must *never* refer back to our past interactions. *Never*". We are, though, members of a group/citizens of a realm that interact with each other freely and often. It is difficult to drop prior associations... but essential. If *you* and *I* have had political conflicts in the past, if *I* think *you* or *your party* did/did not do something with which I disagree(d), if *you* have insulted *me*, or *I* have insulted *you* - all of that is irrelevant here – and should – nay must – be ignored and set asside.

And that rule of "stepping back" applies to dealing with your own problems too, not just other peoples'. Difficult, I know.

If this thread is, however, just another political/power/rhetorical thread, then its demise is (was) inevitable. But if we really – and I mean *really* concerned with Empathy, then we should leave our swords at the door – and our past diaries.

Pax vobiscum...
... and, I hope, see you all again.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

This thread has gone quiet for some time now.

(Note: Below, *I* and *you* are general terms - not references to any specific people other than those in conversation at that time).

Perhaps no-one has any more problems with their mental health and interaction with the universe? Hmmm... unlikely. "Support" and "criticism" are entirely different things, but (alas) the first morphs into the second, all too quickly.

There is a steadfast rule in dealing with someone else's emotional issues which is "If *I* am supporting *you* with empathy, then I must *never* refer back to our past interactions. *Never*". We are, though, members of a group/citizens of a realm that interact with each other freely and often. It is difficult to drop prior associations... but essential. If *you* and *I* have had political conflicts in the past, if *I* think *you* or *your party* did/did not do something with which I disagree(d), if *you* have insulted *me*, or *I* have insulted *you* - all of that is irrelevant here – and should – nay must – be ignored and set asside.

And that rule of "stepping back" applies to dealing with your own problems too, not just other peoples'. Difficult, I know.

If this thread is, however, just another political/power/rhetorical thread, then its demise is (was) inevitable. But if we really – and I mean *really* concerned with Empathy, then we should leave our swords at the door – and our past diaries.

Pax vobiscum...
... and, I hope, see you all again.

Thank you for your contribution. This group remains open for all who wish to participate. Pontificating is considered participation based on your recent contribution. And if further pontificating is your desire I look forward to your next contribution, Ian.

[King Txec]

I don't know if I've responded in this thread before, and with post-election matters I haven't looked :-)

My take on empathy is that each of us needs to consider not only our own feelings and mental needs but those of others. Much of the discourse on Wittenberg is adversarial, which is good for politics. However, that adversarial nature also turns away those of us who have way too much to deal with in our own personal lives. Breneir, for example, I know you've gone through a very rough patch as of late and you have my empathy. You are valuable. We all are. I've struggled in recent days as well with the death of a beloved uncle, the long-term hospitalization of an elderly parent, and the demands of a job that I sometimes view with trepidation as society changes and at my age I find difficult to adapt to. All of us deserve the consideration and empathy of each other, if we are to have a healthy community.

I don't even know if my post was off=topic, but it is what it is.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I don't know if I've responded in this thread before, and with post-election matters I haven't looked :-)

My take on empathy is that each of us needs to consider not only our own feelings and mental needs but those of others. Much of the discourse on Wittenberg is adversarial, which is good for politics. However, that adversarial nature also turns away those of us who have way too much to deal with in our own personal lives. Breneir, for example, I know you've gone through a very rough patch as of late and you have my empathy. You are valuable. We all are. I've struggled in recent days as well with the death of a beloved uncle, the long-term hospitalization of an elderly parent, and the demands of a job that I sometimes view with trepidation as society changes and at my age I find difficult to adapt to. All of us deserve the consideration and empathy of each other, if we are to have a healthy community.

I don't even know if my post was off=topic, but it is what it is.

Well stated and thank you.
Txec, you have my empathy too. I know it doesn't seem like it but I think you do a great job as SOS. Especially considering the recent personal difficulties you mention and the onerous responsibilities of the job. We have been at loggerheads in the past but those are principle-based discussions and not a product of personal animosity.