Royal Crown

Started by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu, May 03, 2023, 07:52:25 AM

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Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

I've been thinking for a while now about our state symbols, and the dignity thereof.  Thus, the Ziu recently changed its arms (although the Cosa and Senats have not yet officially adopted emblazonments of the new blazons).  And that put me in mind of the crown.



As we can see on the state arms, it's a very traditional-looking crown.  It's actually taken from Wikipedia -- it's a slightly modified version of the Heraldic Royal Crown of Spain, as created by legendary Wikipedian "Heralder."

The file can be found here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Heraldic_Royal_Crown_of_Spain.svg

This bothers me a bit.  First of all, it's not actually representative of Talossa.  The gems have been recoloured to red and green, but otherwise its symbolism does not reflect our country.  We are not and never have been an empire, so the orb is not appropriate, for example.

Secondly, this isn't historical.  His Majesty doesn't have a crown.  None of our monarchs have had crowns.  We have a very specific chapeau, instead: the traditional Romanian train conductor's hat (actually an oldMilwaukee fire department dress hat).

It seems to me that it would be good to replace the vector image of a "traditional" but actually not traditional crown with the real thing.  And in fact, it might be good to try to find a new old Milwaukee fire department dress hat, for that matter.

Thoughts?

-NRH
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan


Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Üc R. Tärfă

#1
May it please the Coletx,

It' true that we never had a "real" crown, but in our state arms since 1987 there has been a Crown. I'll consider a proper crown to be traditional both to Talossa 35 years of continued use of it in the Arms and as the universally accepted symbol of a Monarchy in arms even if not really used or existing. (Example: the Kingdom of Italy 1861-1946 had a crown in its arms but a real crown was never fabricated because we didn't perform Coronations and existed only in the descriptions). Regarding the Orb on top of the crown, since the middle age it's a symbol of regal authority and it's not exclusive of empires.

We can make it more "talossan", I just used a general and good svg crown when I remade the vector graphic.

But I'll agree to trying to find a new old Milwaukee fire department dress hat or similar, for the use of our King.
Üc Rêntz'ëfiglheu Tärfâ
Membreu dal Cosă | Distain Grefieir d'Abbavilla
FREEDEMS President | Presedint dels Democrätici Livereschti
Keys to the Kingdom (Cézembre), Stalwart of the Four Stars (Fiovă)

Mic’haglh Autófil, SMC MC EiP

Based on the various images on the wiki (both of KR1 and Art Verbotten) it would appear that we could make a vector of a peaked cap work, altering it to be more accurate to the crown in appearance. It does not necessarily have to be exact -- some artistic license is acceptable -- but that could make for a good starting point.
The Long Fellow, Royal Talossan College of Arms
Specialist, Els Zuávs da l'Altahál Rexhitál
Cäps Naziunal, Parti da Reformaziun

Mic’haglh Autófil, SMC MC EiP

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil, MC EiP on May 22, 2023, 03:13:34 AMBased on the various images on the wiki (both of KR1 and Art Verbotten) it would appear that we could make a vector of a peaked cap work, altering it to be more accurate to the crown in appearance. It does not necessarily have to be exact -- some artistic license is acceptable -- but that could make for a good starting point.

As a follow-up to this:


@Üc R. Tärfă if you wanted to even put this into the Lesser Arms to see how it looks, or I could, either or. Up to you. (Just need to group things right within the .svg)
The Long Fellow, Royal Talossan College of Arms
Specialist, Els Zuávs da l'Altahál Rexhitál
Cäps Naziunal, Parti da Reformaziun

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

#4
Some folks won't like the idea of a change, and I understand that.  Even if people are willing to change the crown emblem, it might take a while.  It took eleven years from when I first brought up the problem with the Cosa and Senats arms to when they were eventually changed!  But whether or not folks come around to my point of view: I love this and we can use it!  Thanks!  Can you upload an SVG?

-NRH
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan


Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Mic’haglh Autófil, SMC MC EiP

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 04, 2023, 06:47:22 PMSome folks won't like the idea of a change, and I understand that.  Even if people are willing to change the crown emblem, it might take a while.  It took eleven years from when I first brought up the problem with the Cosa and Senats arms to when they were eventually changed!  But whether or not folks come around to my point of view: I love this and we can use it!  Thanks!  Can you upload an SVG?

-NRH

Done and done!

- TLF
The Long Fellow, Royal Talossan College of Arms
Specialist, Els Zuávs da l'Altahál Rexhitál
Cäps Naziunal, Parti da Reformaziun

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan


Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat

Hmmmm... I feel like it lacks the opulence (the "panache" if you will) of the crown, it's also a little dark. I think it could work with some adjusting, I'm just not sure what lol

-TFF
The Fulbright Fellow, Royal Talossan College of Arms
Member, Talossan Science Fiction, Fantasy & Whisky Society
Membreu dal Urderi dal Provinçù Soveran da Maricopa

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

I made it bigger and it looked a lot better, but you're right.  It definitely lacks a lot of the same zest of the crown.

-NRH
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan


Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Mic’haglh Autófil, SMC MC EiP

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 05, 2023, 08:09:17 AMI made it bigger and it looked a lot better, but you're right.  It definitely lacks a lot of the same zest of the crown.

-NRH

Inaccuracy to the real article notwithstanding, there's always the possibility of adding some of the embellishments placed on visors of real-world officers of higher rank (colloquially known as "scrambled eggs", especially when gold in color). Lemme see what I can find tonight that might look good.
The Long Fellow, Royal Talossan College of Arms
Specialist, Els Zuávs da l'Altahál Rexhitál
Cäps Naziunal, Parti da Reformaziun

Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB

I'm not a fan of removing the crown. To me, it cheapens our regalia. The hat looks nice and we might find ways to incorporate it somewhere, but this is a monarchy and if someone on the outside saw just the seal, they'd likely be confused.

-SVA/REH
Sir Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, UrB, GST, O.SPM, SMM
Secretár d'Estat
Guaír del Sabor Talossan
The Squirrel Viceroy of Arms, The Rouge Elephant Herald, RTCoA
Cunstaval da Vuode
Justice Emeritus of the Uppermost Cort
Former Seneschal