2023 Talossan Music Top 20 [Final Voting]

[C. M. Siervicül]

I think what we could do is retire songs that place in the Top 10 three times and replace them with another song by the same artist.

I like that idea. Put the repeat winners in a "Hall of Fame."

[Glüc]

Thanks to everyone who participated! I have updated the wiki with the results.

We were discussing yesterday the possibility of retiring songs that are always very successful, especially now that Gimme Shelter has won three of the past four contests.

I think what we could do is retire songs that place in the Top 10 three times and replace them with another song by the same artist. We could determine which song in a preliminary round of voting before the main event.

Let me know what you think.

Some thoughts:

If we decide to kick songs upstairs perhaps it should be limited to songs that actually won. It feels unfair for a song to be forever without a chance of winning because they got close a couple of times. In such cases it would almost be preferable for a song to finish outside the top 10 in a year where they are not likely to win. It would make sense for a hall of fame to contain the songs that won tmt20.

Im not sure the suggested replacement is a good idea. Already the final rounds are a bit stale because we have several classic rock doubles. Obviously there is a reason these songs do well but wouldn't the point of removing songs be to create some room for some new things. Do we immediately need to fill that room with another Queen and another Stones and another Dire Straits? (I say as someone who frequently gives many points to all three of these artists.)

[Glüc]

Preliminary rounds for artists sounds fun though!

Maybe we could take that idea a step further (I realise this will be controversial)

The first round is usually really diverse with lots of different kind of picks but towards the final rounds we gravitate towards the artists on which there is the most common ground. I do think that tends to make the final rounds a bit stale, especially because some artists are represented several times.

Perhaps we could do a limit of one song per artist.

A way this could work is:

- Regular nominations can only be used for songs by artists that haven't been nominated yet. However in addition to regular nominations everyone can also nominate one additional song by an artist that has already been nominated. This doesnt affect the number of free spots.

- Before Round 1 we then have a round 0 with one group (or more likely, pair) per artist where we determine what song will represent that artist.

- If a song that was automatically nominated for round 2 loses in round 0, the new song by that artist will also start in round 2. However, in such cases, the song that was replaced will automatically be nominated for round 0 the next year.

- In case of collaborations the song counts for the main artist (so Under Pressure counts as a Queen song). Artists who've gone solo after being in a band don't count as the same artist, but covering their own band is an exception (so While My Guitar Gently Weeps would count as a Beatles song). Obviously that exception wouldnt apply to completely unrelated artists doing a cover.

- The first year this applies all artists with multiple songs automatically nominated will have to do round 0. This means there are more spots for new nominations. If an artist has multiple automatic round 2 nominations the extra spots will be filled by the best performing round 2 eliminations last year.

- Songs that lose round 0 can of course be renominated next year

- Potential voting keys for round 0 could be 1 for a group of 2, 3-1 for a group of 3, 2-1 for a group of 4, 4-2-1 for a group of 5, 3-2-1 for a group of 6.


Obviously a lot of great songs would be eliminated because of this rule (Round 0 for Radiohead or Rush would be horrible), but it does create a lot of space for interesting new songs, especially in the later rounds and it creates a short fun new round at the beginning.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

Thanks to everyone who participated! I have updated the wiki with the results.

We were discussing yesterday the possibility of retiring songs that are always very successful, especially now that Gimme Shelter has won three of the past four contests.

I think what we could do is retire songs that place in the Top 10 three times and replace them with another song by the same artist. We could determine which song in a preliminary round of voting before the main event.

Let me know what you think.

Some thoughts:

If we decide to kick songs upstairs perhaps it should be limited to songs that actually won. It feels unfair for a song to be forever without a chance of winning because they got close a couple of times. In such cases it would almost be preferable for a song to finish outside the top 10 in a year where they are not likely to win. It would make sense for a hall of fame to contain the songs that won tmt20.

Im not sure the suggested replacement is a good idea. Already the final rounds are a bit stale because we have several classic rock doubles. Obviously there is a reason these songs do well but wouldn't the point of removing songs be to create some room for some new things. Do we immediately need to fill that room with another Queen and another Stones and another Dire Straits? (I say as someone who frequently gives many points to all three of these artists.)

I was thinking something similar. How about retiring songs that have won and have placed somewhere in the Top 20 at least three times?

As for your other suggestion, I can see the merit in not automatically nominating another song by the same artist, although I don't think I really like the proposed Round 0.

[Barclamïu da Miéletz]

Can't wait for the 2024 edition (if there will be one)

[Gjermund Higraff]

As for your other suggestion, I can see the merit in not automatically nominating another song by the same artist, although I don't think I really like the proposed Round 0.

I agree. If the process gives me a headache, I'm not immediately positive. If certain artists tend to be nominated multiple times, then perhaps those in particular should be addressed instead of doing that extra round? Like a total number of songs in the current top 20 + nominations. That total being 2, for example.

As far as retiring is concerned, I think I agree with retiring after three times, but perhaps top 10? I haven't followed the TMT20 for long, so perhaps 20 is better. I like it in principle though, regardless.