The Progressive Alliance details its commitment

[þerxh Sant-Enogat]

Systematically voting for the fall of a Government when in opposition must not be a principle.

A small quasi-philosophical note on this; even if the government of the day was performing well, an opposition party that wished to lead a future government should by definition vote against Confidence, as otherwise they would essentially publicly admit they don't believe they could do a better job.

Every MC should be allowed to assess in good faith the performance of the Government, without any party line injunction or whip instruction. That's also a promise of the Progressive Alliance, as stated above.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

But you literally spent an entire term upholding something that you now admit was an error. Seeing now that the Agreement was indeed used to block the Ziu's consideration of Chancery Reform and that historic Organic Law reform was achieved outside of that Agreement, Open Society would welcome the Progressive Alliance's support for our effort to ensure an apolitical Chancery/Civil Service.

Reposting for the operative part which was ignored. Ahem.

No answer is an answer too. I mean, while you're making promises...

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Every MC should be allowed to assess in good faith the performance of the Government, without any party line injunction or whip instruction. That's also a promise of the Progressive Alliance, as stated above.

"We'll give our seats in the Cosa to people who won't be expected to abide by our programme" is perhaps not something you want to be promoting

[þerxh Sant-Enogat]

But you literally spent an entire term upholding something that you now admit was an error. Seeing now that the Agreement was indeed used to block the Ziu's consideration of Chancery Reform and that historic Organic Law reform was achieved outside of that Agreement, Open Society would welcome the Progressive Alliance's support for our effort to ensure an apolitical Chancery/Civil Service.

Reposting for the operative part which was ignored. Ahem.

No answer is an answer too. I mean, while you're making promises...

I still support the discussion of a bill ensuring an apolitical chancery, as I explained in the Standing Committee. We need to find the good balance to preserve freedom of political affiliation and activity of all volunteering citizens, and I rely on the collective wisdom of the Ziu to find this right balance.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

But you literally spent an entire term upholding something that you now admit was an error. Seeing now that the Agreement was indeed used to block the Ziu's consideration of Chancery Reform and that historic Organic Law reform was achieved outside of that Agreement, Open Society would welcome the Progressive Alliance's support for our effort to ensure an apolitical Chancery/Civil Service.

Reposting for the operative part which was ignored. Ahem.

No answer is an answer too. I mean, while you're making promises...

I still support the discussion of a bill ensuring an apolitical chancery, as I explained in the Standing Committee. We need to find the good balance to preserve freedom of political affiliation and activity of all volunteering citizens, and I rely on the collective wisdom of the Ziu to find this right balance.

Well, supporting a discussion by the full Ziu is indeed an improvement on what occurred during the last term. So this is indeed a policy change as you supported the restriction of discussion during this last term to the Standing Committee. And since the bill does not limit political affiliation and activity of volunteering citizens I assume it will find full-throated support from the Progressive Alliance.

Unless there is a one-seat shortage for a majority again.

[þerxh Sant-Enogat]

So this is indeed a policy change as you supported the restriction of discussion during this last term to the Standing Committee.

Not true

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

So this is indeed a policy change as you supported the restriction of discussion during this last term to the Standing Committee.

Not true

So you did post the bill to the Hopper for discussion by the full Ziu followed by a vote by the full Ziu after it was vetoed in the Standing Committee? What you linked to is a post showing you honored the Agreement which allowed the bill to be blocked from consideration.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Unless there is a one-seat shortage for a majority again.

Look, I don't want to interrupt you guys doing this,



 but I still wonder what you think your alternative was to doing the deal and getting the seat :D

The goal of the Free Democrats was to stop (a) the constant campaign of personal attacks/insinuations of bias against the Secretary of State; (b) the OrgLaw proposals, now thankfully memory-holed, which would have allowed the King to nominate a successor without Ziu approval. Mission accomplished.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Unless there is a one-seat shortage for a majority again.

Look, I don't want to interrupt you guys doing this,



 but I still wonder what you think your alternative was to doing the deal and getting the seat :D

The goal of the Free Democrats was to stop (a) the constant campaign of personal attacks/insinuations of bias against the Secretary of State; (b) the OrgLaw proposals, now thankfully memory-holed, which would have allowed the King to nominate a successor without Ziu approval. Mission accomplished.

Some people call it "constant campaign of personal attacks/insinuations of bias" when someone points out that it is not appropriate for someone to be the chief of a party that is running in elections he is also administering...others call it standing up for a pretty simple and usually not controversial principle. I know that Txec felt pressured to do it because the FreeDems were in a desperate place at the time but despite being good intentioned it was not appropriate. He has pledged not to do it again (in private) which is good for his time in office and since I think he is a good guy leads me to believe he would not give partisan preference (even in a largely symbolic office) like the monarchy. But we need to address the precedent and wishing it away with stories about personal attacks are not going to make it go away.

So yeah, you achieved your mission (thank goodness you finally acknowledged it) of blocking the Nonpartisan SoS Act with the assistance of TNC members. Next term, what will you do? And the next term?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

But you literally spent an entire term upholding something that you now admit was an error. Seeing now that the Agreement was indeed used to block the Ziu's consideration of Chancery Reform and that historic Organic Law reform was achieved outside of that Agreement, Open Society would welcome the Progressive Alliance's support for our effort to ensure an apolitical Chancery/Civil Service.

Reposting for the operative part which was ignored. Ahem.

Yes, I agree that intense passive-aggression is making it hard for you to communicate clearly.  See, you started your response here with a technique called "begging the question," where you state a very questionable assumption as if it were agreed-upon fact, before then proceeding to your request.  Answering either positively or negatively has the side effect of seeming to accept that assumption.

If you'd like to build bridges, put down the torch.

Fair play to you, great comeback :D

But more seriously: if I'm reading your program right, the question of why the Database reform didn't happen is "AD was going to do it, so it didn't happen because he went on leave, but it'll happen this time". So it seems that every election or so there's an AD Will Be Minister of Everything party, just under different names.

It is true that I am unusually effective at creating long-lasting and durable new solutions for the country.

Heh, but seriously, not to beg the question myself: as one example, I organized and did most of the work to convert the sprawling series of laws from decades of legislating into el Lexhatx.  Our legal code is now in its tenth year, and it has become one of the most important parts of governance.

And Infotecă was created last term -- a system that's incredibly easy to maintain, and yet provides invaluable data for understanding the trends of our country.  If you think your government is screwing up the immigration process or that Witt is quieter lately, that information is just a click away.  And while it's just a spreadsheet, that very simplicity means it can become the basis for any number of other projects in the future.

I am just one guy, so I'll never be "Minister of Everything," but I have a knack for new solutions to fix hard problems.  I'd like to put that to work again and work out a new system for the Chancery.  I'd be happy to discuss specifics, if you'd like.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I would still like to do this, and I actually have a plan in mind to replace the database overall with simpler different system (rather than using it for record-keeping, voting, and legislating).  I'd be happy to discuss it in detail if there's any interest.

Sure I'd love to discuss it - just not in this thread as I don't want to derail it.

I'll start a new thread.

Systematically voting for the fall of a Government when in opposition must not be a principle.

A small quasi-philosophical note on this; even if the government of the day was performing well, an opposition party that wished to lead a future government should by definition vote against Confidence, as otherwise they would essentially publicly admit they don't believe they could do a better job.

I honestly can't decide what I think about this.  On the one hand, this is philosophically sound... shouldn't every member of the Opposition lack confidence in the government's ability to do the job on the basis of wrong policies?  But on the other hand, often those are simply issues of priority.  No one in the Free Democrats seemed to really oppose the availability of more data on immigration or the like, but they were just skeptical it could be done well or was worth doing.  If applications are being handled in a timely fashion, deadlines are met in a reasonable way, and there's nothing happening that's actually objectionable on its own merits -- I can see voting to support a Government from the opposition.

Tricky one, in some ways, even though I know it's de rigeur to always vote Non when you're in the shadow.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

And Infotecă was created last term -- a system that's incredibly easy to maintain, and yet provides invaluable data for understanding the trends of our country.  If you think your government is screwing up the immigration process or that Witt is quieter lately, that information is just a click away.  And while it's just a spreadsheet, that very simplicity means it can become the basis for any number of other projects in the future.

I was pleased to help with keeping it updated.

Yes, I agree that intense passive-aggression is making it hard for you to communicate clearly.  See, you started your response here with a technique called "begging the question," where you state a very questionable assumption as if it were agreed-upon fact, before then proceeding to your request.  Answering either positively or negatively has the side effect of seeming to accept that assumption.

If you'd like to build bridges, put down the torch.

There ain't a thing passive about it, Baron. I will continue to aggressively defend the principle that our Secretary of State should not lead a party especially when it is contesting an election to which the SoS is administering.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I am just one guy, so I'll never be "Minister of Everything," but I have a knack for new solutions to fix hard problems.  I'd like to put that to work again and work out a new system for the Chancery. 

Yeah, I hope we'll all be working together post-election to replace the Database.

But you're skating over what I call the "constitutional" issue here, which is an important FreeDems principle: the principle of separation of governance and management. That being: the people who are most skilled at doing a job are not necessarily those who should be deciding what job should be done. Or, in other words: the question of whether AD should putting his undoubted talents towards a project, and the question of whether AD should be part of (or running?) the Government who decides what needs doing, are separate ones.

Unfortunately, there have been situations in the past where AD has withdrawn his labour from projects where he wasn't part of the decision-making team. An electoral choice where you have to put AD in government or he won't offer his labour is not necessarily invalid, but certainly what I'd call "anti-political". And it also raises the issue - which I tried to run past Þerxh but maybe he didn't get it - that basing a major project or an entire government on one hyperactive person has a quite obvious point of failure, as was demonstrated just last term. The same kind of failure whereby the current Database becomes a shambles whenever MPF isn't around to tweak it, which is very often.

To avoid ambiguity: if I'm in opposition next term, my services will be at the disposal of the Government for such initiatives as align with FreeDem political priorities and my own skill set.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Unfortunately, there have been situations in the past where AD has withdrawn his labour from projects where he wasn't part of the decision-making team. An electoral choice where you have to put AD in government or he won't offer his labour is not necessarily invalid, but certainly what I'd call "anti-political". And it also raises the issue - which I tried to run past Þerxh but maybe he didn't get it - that basing a major project or an entire government on one hyperactive person has a quite obvious point of failure, as was demonstrated just last term. The same kind of failure whereby the current Database becomes a shambles whenever MPF isn't around to tweak it, which is very often.

This kind of makes it sounds like I refuse to help with stuff unless I'm allowed to do what I want.  That seems unfair of you to imply.

I frequently volunteer help for things when I'm not in charge.  At various times while in opposition, I put together el Lexhatx when in Opposition, I helped vet and suggest questions on the civics test, I reorganized and led an entire new cultural paramilitary in the form of the Zouaves... Honestly, the only time I can recall withdrawing from an effort was the history project you were leading, and that's because we immediately came into conflict when you said I was trying to take over by contributing too much.

I am very proud of my record of civic service, no matter the Seneschal.

Now, certainly we have to face the reality that Talossan louise do not shine bright in any pecuniary sense.  People donate their time and sweat for prestige, the pleasure of doing interesting things, or to fulfill a promise.  When the Free Democrats replaced most of the website, it was done after promising to accomplish this task if given the mandate of the people.  That is completely reasonable -- we don't pay in gold, but in fun.

[þerxh Sant-Enogat]

A great thanks to my friends @Baron Alexandreu Davinescu and @xpb who both accepted to support the Progressive Alliance and joining its list of candidates !
I am proud to be able to benefit from the experience and the wisdom of these two eminent citizens.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

A great thanks to my friends @Baron Alexandreu Davinescu and @xpb who both accepted to support the Progressive Alliance and joining its list of candidates !

I just noted that this expanded list isn't on the ballot?

[King Txec]

Unfortunately if this was not posted in the official thread and/or I wasn't tagged, I likely missed it.

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

Unfortunately if this was not posted in the official thread and/or I wasn't tagged, I likely missed it.

It looks like Therxh did edit his post to contain the list, but he does not appear to have tagged you at any point.

[Glüc]

Unfortunately if this was not posted in the official thread and/or I wasn't tagged, I likely missed it.

Clearly it would have been better if the Progressives had more actively communicated the update, but I'm assuming since it was posted in the official thread before the deadline, the updated list is still legally valid?

[King Txec]

Unfortunately if this was not posted in the official thread and/or I wasn't tagged, I likely missed it.

Clearly it would have been better if the Progressives had more actively communicated the update, but I'm assuming since it was posted in the official thread before the deadline, the updated list is still legally valid?

It was an edited post that I was not advised of in the official thread so I did not see the edit. Next time hopefully party leaders will let me know when they've made changes (like Dame Miestra did). I'll still count it though.