Broosking Discussion.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Kind of astonished at how this conversation has taken a turn.  There are people who actually advocate that the law basically read like this:

"The Secretary of State shall administer Wittenberg.  They will have unilateral and unchecked authority to determine what speech is acceptable in any given instance, and move, edit, or remove speech as they deem necessary."

That's insane!

What say the alternative?  I mean, somebody needs to have this power, right? 

Cool, so you think it's insane that the Chancery has that power.  Even though you were totally cool with John Woolley (King John, but in his private capacity as a private person) having that same power?  Whatever...

If not the SoS, who is subject to (wait for it, it's one of your favourites) checks and balances, then who?

If not the SoS, who can be replaced for malfeasance (unlike the private owner of the previous Wittenberg), then who?

...what the law says?  That the SoS acts upon request from whoever is in charge of that particular board?  For example, the Chancery shouldn't be policing debate in the Senats.  The Mencei should request action from them.  That's what the law says, as best I can tell.

Sir AD, you were the opinion that the King, in his private capacity, should get to unilaterally decide what is acceptable speech and what gets moved, removed, or deleted anywhere on Wittenberg? You thought about it, considered possible problems that might result, and decided that this was the best and safest thing for our country?

...no?  I wasn't okay with it.  That's why I wrote the law that created Telecomuna, so our Wittenberg would be administered by elected and appointed officials.

For years, I was of the opinion that the king was doing a fine job and it would be illegal to just seize Witt, but that we should have a setup that had more legitimacy.  Not everyone in the RUMP agreed with it, but I thought it was the best thing.  Here's the law: http://wiki.talossa.com/Law:The_Decoupling_the_Public_and_Private_Witts_Act

I also wrote the extension to try to make it work later when the Chancery needed more time to get things set up:
http://wiki.talossa.com/Law:The_Trying_Again_on_Telecomuna_Act

You voted for these bills.

The law actually says that NewWitt should only be hosting provincial sub-forums for the "provinces that so request" (Lex.J.1).  I won't bother going into the nitty-gritty on this, seeing as exactly zero provinces have ever officially made such a request, therefore Wittenberg should not actually be currently hosting any provincial sub-forum at all (but if you really want this nation of laws to follow the law down to the last comma then you know how to file a suit (not sure who you would sue though, since the guy that created all the NewWitt provincial sub-forums isn't a citizen any more, but fucking rock on, law dude).

You accidentally clipped out the next sentence: "The Secretary of State shall have ultimate discretion in the question of infrastructure, although they are highly advised to take the wishes of officials into account in their decision-making."  That was done specifically so that the SoS could set things up as seemed best to them, law dude.

Anyway, the very fact that El Lex has that phrase ("provinces that so request") indicates that it is not mandatory for provinces to even have a sub-board on NewWitt.  So, to what you assert ("they would be in charge of every provincial board (rather than local governments")... Yes.  If a province is supposed to legally request the Chancery host a forum board for them, then yes, the province should yield any say in how that sub-forum operates.  If the province doesn't like that, then the province is free to not make a request for a forum to be hosted on Witt and can go set up it's own methods of communication.  Further, if something as important as a province gets this level of treatment then you can be sure that something like the College of Arms can be treated in law in the same way.

If I understand your reasoning, you're saying that because the provinces request a service, then therefore that must make them subordinate within that service to the provider.  And because the College of Arms is less "important," it must be the same for them.  I don't think this reasoning holds.  I had to request an email account -- does Google get to say what mail I'm allowed to send?  No, of course not.

Plus, the law seems to say otherwise, since it says that, "The Secretary of State or their designated representative(s) shall act to maintain a minimum level of acceptable behavior on these boards when such action is requested whensoever their own judgment directs that it is necessary."  That is different than "The Secretary of State or their designated representative(s) shall act to maintain a minimum level of acceptable behavior on these boards whensoever their own judgment directs that it is necessary."  We can't just go with your gut feeling on who is more important.

Your entire argument against the Chancery, here, is the exact opposite of what you have argued in the past in defence of King John as a private individual having the exact same powers over OldWitt on Proboards.  You once argued that it was 100% legit and cool for John to moderate Witt and enforce Wittiquette as he saw fit without oversight from anybody.  Now that we are in a position where the SoS has Witt control, where the SoS is subject to impeachment and removal from office and is subject to scrutiny and oversight, you're crying blue bloody murder?

THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHY YOU ARE CONSTANTLY ACCUSED OF ARGUING IN BAD FAITH.

This whole screed seems a little silly now, doesn't it?  I pushed for us to be moved to an official forum starting about seven years ago or so, as I recall, since I was uncomfortable with the status quo.

You know what.
Fuck the government's code of conduct.
Apologies to my (possibly ex) cabinet colleagues. 
I'm willing to take the chop for this.

lol I don't think you need to worry.  Only challenging the people in power is against the code of conduct around here, it seems.  Also, I think you honestly might be confusing me with someone else in some of your account of misbehavior.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Is this discussion even about broosking anymore?

No, I derailed it when I asked when the Secretary of State obtained the power to move or censor posts.  I wasn't going to bring up broosking again, because it seems to me that there's a new norm, and there's nothing that can be done about that.

You guys have managed to derail a derailed conversation. Meta!

The whole thing is weird and tedious at this point.  Basically I just wish I'd ignored it and let the Secretary of State wield the new power without anyone noticing.  Does it even matter these days?

[Eðo Grischun]

Only challenging the people in power is against the code of conduct around here, it seems.

Except V was dropped from the Cabinet last term for losing the rag with you.  So, no.  You're talking (expletive removed) again.

Also, I think you honestly might be confusing me with someone else in some of your account of misbehavior.

Turn yer gaslight off.  I've got a saved document with all your posts, PMs and emails that show the pattern of behaviour if I ever need it, mate. 

Let's just do each other the favour and both got off this train right now. You (expletive removed) off from me and I'll (expletive removed) off from you.  If you need any information from or have questions for any of my offices just you get in touch with your elected rep and get them to raise a Terp on your behalf.  Anything other than that will just get blanked.  Deal?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Only challenging the people in power is against the code of conduct around here, it seems.

Except V was dropped from the Cabinet last term for losing the rag with you.  So, no.  You're talking shite again.

Luc and Ian P are no longer in the Government.

Also, I think you honestly might be confusing me with someone else in some of your account of misbehavior.

Turn yer gaslight off.  I've got a saved document with all your posts, PMs and emails that show the pattern of behaviour if I ever need it, mate. 

Let's just do each other the favour and both got off this train right now. You fuck off from me and I'll fuck off from you.  If you need any information from or have questions for any of my offices just you get in touch with your elected rep and get them to raise a Terp on your behalf.  Anything other than that will just get blanked.  Deal?

I've posted thousands of times, and I know I've said some wrong things in public over the years.  The world has changed and so have I since 2006.  But as far as I can tell from a quick search based on the two email addresses I have for you, we've only ever exchanged emails outside of public forums a small number of times -- mostly about anodyne stuff, like party platforms or the advertisement you ran in Beric'ht Talossan.  And we've exchanged 25 PMs, also, about similar matters.  I mostly say in private the same thing I say in public, as you know.  I knew I'd been consistent on the administration of Wittenberg because I've been saying the same things about it for a very long time.  (Not to say that I haven't changed views on some things, but this isn't one of them).

C'est la vie -- we've known each other more than a decade and I've posted thousands of times.  But it's been quite a while since I started a conversation of any kind with you or addressed you directly out of the blue, and I don't expect that will change.  There isn't much point, after all.  Still weird to me how the mind works -- I know how you feel, since you're very forceful about it, but I just can't stop thinking of you as a friend.  I've thought of you that way just too long as so much stuff has happened in both of our lives, I guess.  If you want to formalize your arrangement, this forum has a block function.  I am certainly happy to end this conversation.

[King Txec]

Well I'm sure I'm going to piss some people off, but this conversation has gotten completely out of hand and in my capacity as Administrator of Witt as the Secretary of State, I am going to enforce a cooling off period by closing this thread for one week. If anyone has any issues with this, they can file a suit with the Uppermost Cort.

[King Txec]

Minister Grischun, let this stand as formal warning as per the rules of Wittiquette that abusive language is not to be accepted.

Thanks,
Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă,
Secretary of State