Ceadfă del Ziu: Restoration of National Honour

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I'd be interested in some of the following things, some of which people have already brought up:

Today, we are a very welcoming country to people of every belief and background. There have been multiple seneschals who are transgender, for example, and people have political beliefs that range from anarchist to conservative theocrat. Would you be comfortable living in peace with all and sundry?

Many people feel that you leaned very heavily on the law and others to try to maintain control of the country. Others have pointed out that you might feel that it was your creation to steer. Regardless of that, could you be a citizen among all citizens?

Our national language has evolved over time, and with some difficulty, our language committee has arrived at relative unity. Is that something you're okay with?

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Personally, I would really rather we had another conversation with him before we got right to voting.

I wholeheartedly agree, which is why I will be voting against this bill unless and until such a conversation has been had and the air has been cleared.

[Mximo Malt]

In fact, I'd like to co-sponsor the Bill, if possible.

Further, in the future I'd like to moot a bill wherein former Rulers are automatically granted a Dukedom.

-BenArd

Of course! And did you see that I requested arms?

[Mximo Malt]

Given that Talossa's transgender community is now large and prominent in public life, perhaps someone should ask Ben Madison whether he still holds to the absolute contempt he expressed for that community in previous decades.

I don't think he would nowadays given that he's part of the Henryite church.

*cough* Anglicans *cough*

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Given that Talossa's transgender community is now large and prominent in public life, perhaps someone should ask Ben Madison whether he still holds to the absolute contempt he expressed for that community in previous decades.

I don't think he would nowadays given that he's part of the Henryite church.

*cough* Anglicans *cough*

There are more than enough transphobic Anglicans out there. The LGBT community doesn't call the UK "TERF Island" for nothing.

[Mximo Malt]

Given that Talossa's transgender community is now large and prominent in public life, perhaps someone should ask Ben Madison whether he still holds to the absolute contempt he expressed for that community in previous decades.

I don't think he would nowadays given that he's part of the Henryite church.

*cough* Anglicans *cough*

There are more than enough transphobic Anglicans out there. The LGBT community doesn't call the UK "TERF Island" for nothing.

I called them Henryites because of their theology, NOT because of transgenderism!!!

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Given that Talossa's transgender community is now large and prominent in public life, perhaps someone should ask Ben Madison whether he still holds to the absolute contempt he expressed for that community in previous decades.

I don't think he would nowadays given that he's part of the Henryite church.

*cough* Anglicans *cough*

There are more than enough transphobic Anglicans out there. The LGBT community doesn't call the UK "TERF Island" for nothing.

I called them Henryites because of their theology, NOT because of transgenderism!!!

What?

I'm explaining to you that Ben's conversion to the Anglican Church in no way means that he is therefore accepting of trans people now, which is what your message seemed to suggest.

Also, "transgenderism" seems like a bad choice of words.

[Mximo Malt]

Given that Talossa's transgender community is now large and prominent in public life, perhaps someone should ask Ben Madison whether he still holds to the absolute contempt he expressed for that community in previous decades.

I don't think he would nowadays given that he's part of the Henryite church.

*cough* Anglicans *cough*

There are more than enough transphobic Anglicans out there. The LGBT community doesn't call the UK "TERF Island" for nothing.

I called them Henryites because of their theology, NOT because of transgenderism!!!

What?

I'm explaining to you that Ben's conversion to the Anglican Church in no way means that he is therefore accepting of trans people now, which is what your message seemed to suggest.

Also, "transgenderism" seems like a bad choice of words.

Apologies about the "ism" word.

After the much-needed enlightenment from the ex-Seneschal about KR1's views, this in NO WAY influences my motives to bring him back. My only reasons are for el Glheþ (etymological research), and due to the fact that he founded this beautiful land that we call home.

That's it.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

If that's true, that'll be an easy answer for him. But he has expressed different beliefs in the past, and I think it's very reasonable to ask him about it.

[Mximo Malt]

If that's true, that'll be an easy answer for him. But he has expressed different beliefs in the past, and I think it's very reasonable to ask him about it.

If that's true, that'll be an easy answer for him. But he has expressed different beliefs in the past, and I think it's very reasonable to ask him about it.

I'm surprised you're the only other person in the Kingdom that resonates with me! Surely "belonging for the sake of belonging" wouldn't ruffle anyone's feathers, right? Not when it's our founder, apparently! 🙄

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Maybe we could hold off on this vote until we have a chance to chat with him? Another phone call to invite him to join us here, maybe. Would that be okay?

The same reason that we get along is what applies here: I want everyone to feel safe and welcome, as long as they're not going after anyone, and that includes both you and him and people who might very reasonably wonder if he still has the same views as before. You might not be aware of this, but he was rather hateful and went to some lengths to do things like deadname some of our citizens specifically to offend them.

That was a long time ago, though, so there's every possibility that he's just completely changed in that respect. A lot of folks have grown in the subsequent years.

[Mximo Malt]

Maybe we could hold off on this vote until we have a chance to chat with him? Another phone call to invite him to join us here, maybe. Would that be okay?

The same reason that we get along is what applies here: I want everyone to feel safe and welcome, as long as they're not going after anyone, and that includes both you and him and people who might very reasonably wonder if he still has the same views as before. You might not be aware of this, but he was rather hateful and went to some lengths to do things like deadname some of our citizens specifically to offend them.

That was a long time ago, though, so there's every possibility that he's just completely changed in that respect. A lot of folks have grown in the subsequent years.

Ok, but this bill is first and foremost to OK his return. We can have a T&RC before issuing him a grant to give him a chance to clarify his actions.

Sounds fair, doesn't it, Baron Seneschal?

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Ok, but this bill is first and foremost to OK his return. We can have a T&RC before issuing him a grant to give him a chance to clarify his actions.

Sounds fair, doesn't it, Baron Seneschal?

This bill specifically asks the people in charge to "RESTORE THE CITIZENSHIP OF ROBERT I AT ONCE". "At once" means immediately. That doesn't sound like a mere OK, but rather that you would like him back as fast as humanly possible. Too fast for some people here.

[Mximo Malt]

Ok, but this bill is first and foremost to OK his return. We can have a T&RC before issuing him a grant to give him a chance to clarify his actions.

Sounds fair, doesn't it, Baron Seneschal?

This bill specifically asks the people in charge to "RESTORE THE CITIZENSHIP OF ROBERT I AT ONCE". "At one" means immediately. That doesn't sound like a mere OK, but rather that you would like him back as fast as humanly possible. Too fast for some people here.

Recent developments have changed that for me. I'll edit it immediately.

[Mximo Malt]

Ok, but this bill is first and foremost to OK his return. We can have a T&RC before issuing him a grant to give him a chance to clarify his actions.

Sounds fair, doesn't it, Baron Seneschal?

This bill specifically asks the people in charge to "RESTORE THE CITIZENSHIP OF ROBERT I AT ONCE". "At once" means immediately. That doesn't sound like a mere OK, but rather that you would like him back as fast as humanly possible. Too fast for some people here.

There, happy?

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

There, happy?

Hang on, did the Seneschal agree to chair a Truth and Reconciliation Commission? Did your co-sponsors agree to this change? You're putting the cart before the horse.

Speaking of co-sponsors, the appropriate title for S:reu Ardpresteir within the Ziu would be "Senator for Maricopa", not "Squirrel-King of Arms".

[Mximo Malt]

There, happy?

Hang on, did the Seneschal agree to chair a Truth and Reconciliation Commission? Did your co-sponsors agree to this change? You're putting the cart before the horse.

Speaking of co-sponsors, the appropriate title for S:reu Ardpresteir within the Ziu would be "Senator for Maricopa", not "Squirrel-King of Arms".

If the Seneschal supports a T&RC, I have no doubt in my mind that he would oppose being the chair. And regarding my cosponsors, they wouldn't mind the tweaks I made here and there.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

If the Seneschal supports a T&RC, I have no doubt in my mind that he would oppose being the chair. And regarding my cosponsors, they wouldn't mind the tweaks I made here and there.

Did you ask? I mean, changing "return Ben's citizenship at once" to "agree to let Ben return on the condition of being questioned by a T&RC" is not a small tweak by any means.

[Mximo Malt]

I am reluctant to jump right into this with both feet, since I think there's still a lot of raw feelings on both sides. However, maybe this is the start of something?

Personally, I would really rather we had another conversation with him before we got right to voting. I would be happy to authorize an account for him if he would be willing to come chat with us.

We'll talk in DMs or Discord (whichever you prefer)

[Mximo Malt]

If the Seneschal supports a T&RC, I have no doubt in my mind that he would oppose being the chair. And regarding my cosponsors, they wouldn't mind the tweaks I made here and there.

Did you ask? I mean, changing "return Ben's citizenship at once" to "agree to let Ben return on the condition of being questioned by a T&RC" is not a small tweak by any means.

Well given the fact that the majority of subjects still resent him, I think it only be fair to change the method of restoring KR1's nationality.