Introducing Nicholas Richard Burman [P] [G]

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I don't think we should be immigrating anyone who vows to overthrow our government or who says they'll essentially be lying with their citizenship oath.  I hope that, unless this is clarified a bit, that someone will exercise Section 8 on this application.

Fun fact: I identified as an anarchist when I first applied for Talossan citizenship. That's one of the many reasons King Robert I caught an allergy to me. And when I finally became a citizenship of the Kingdom I "swore allegiance to the King" pro forma, while retaining my republican beliefs.

I would certainly not exercise Section 8 on someone with anarchist political beliefs. It would be perfectly okay for a Talossan citizen to advocate a transition to a governmentless nation - in fact, that's one of the historical definitions of "Peculiarism" and thus sanctified by precedent. I might exercise Section 8 on someone who wasn't straight-up and honest in the immigration queue, though. I hope my meaning is clear.

NRB, if you can say it on the immigration form, surely you can say it to other Talossans. Courage of your convictions and all that.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I don't think we should be immigrating anyone who vows to overthrow our government or who says they'll essentially be lying with their citizenship oath.  I hope that, unless this is clarified a bit, that someone will exercise Section 8 on this application.

Fun fact: I identified as an anarchist when I first applied for Talossan citizenship. That's one of the many reasons King Robert I caught an allergy to me. And when I finally became a citizenship of the Kingdom I "swore allegiance to the King" pro forma, while retaining my republican beliefs.

I would certainly not exercise Section 8 on someone with anarchist political beliefs. It would be perfectly okay for a Talossan citizen to advocate a transition to a governmentless nation - in fact, that's one of the historical definitions of "Peculiarism" and thus sanctified by precedent. I might exercise Section 8 on someone who wasn't straight-up and honest in the immigration queue, though. I hope my meaning is clear.

NRB, if you can say it on the immigration form, surely you can say it to other Talossans. Courage of your convictions and all that.

"Advocate a transition" is doing a lot of work here, since it's kind of the main point of my query.  Being an anarchist is fine with me, but intending to "overthrow the government" can encompass a great deal of efforts, including illegal ones.

[NRB]

Switching topics, aside from the description on wikipedia (and the desire to overthrow the government), what brings you here? Is your interest cultural, linguistic, you just like the quirkiness, something entirely different?

Def. the quirkiness aspect. I think it's amusing a kid came up with the concept over 40 years ago and that it's still going along today.

I'm also impressed there is a language. I'm a little bit interested in conglangs and tried to learn Esperanto (and failed, but I've always done extremely poorly with languages). My wife's native language is Spanish though, so if I put in the effort to really really learn a second language I will have to confess that I would go with Spanish and not Talossan.

For what it's worth though, I have over the course of my life attempted to learn Spanish (elementary and junior high school), French (high school), and German (college), and of those I remember more French than anything. So presumably, i'd be able to pick it up better than I could most languages (which to be perfectly honest still would not be that quickly)

[Éovart Andrinescù]

For what it's worth though, I have over the course of my life attempted to learn Spanish (elementary and junior high school), French (high school), and German (college), and of those I remember more French than anything. So presumably, i'd be able to pick it up better than I could most languages (which to be perfectly honest still would not be that quickly)

Bienvenido! I put a fair bit of time into studying Talossan back when I first joined in 2013. My skill with Talossan has waned unfortunately, but I actually found its Latin structure useful some years later when I took up studying Spanish at university. So take heart! The language has its uses.

[Açafat del Val]

I am curious to know: if you will not comment one way or the other about your intentions to overthrow not just the King but the entire system of government, then what are your greatest interests in Talossa?

More specifically, if you were granted citizenship in the next hour, what would you do with your newfound citizenship?

Would you help maintain the wiki? Perhaps join one of the magazines as a columnist? Become a member of SIGN and learn the language?

How do you think you will turn fascination into action?

[NRB]

within the next hour? I would probably go, "Oh neat," and go back to work, because I am in the middle of a big data migration. I'm at the final cleanup stages but still, you know how it is.

I am not much of a writer I am afraid, so I doubt I would contribute to the magazine, and as I have said I am bad at languages. I have written a couple wikipedia articles and done some minor editing, so I suppose of those options the wiki would be my top interest.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I think we should all pause to consider that, in our Big Neighbour, there is a scary "demonization " of anarchists going on in the service of the ongoing authoritarian crackdown, aka the Mussolini cosplay coming from the White House. I'd prefer we didn't start doing that here. I don't like the idea of a discussion on whether particular political views (outside those explicitly condoning bigotry and hatred of certain identities) are sufficiently Talossan.

Maybe we should declare Fiôvă an "anarchist jurisdiction" in solidarity with New York and Portland.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I don't think anyone's doing that, and it's much more about finding out whether or not he actually is expressing an intention to engage in an illegal overthrow of our government and laws, if he is just phrasing democratic intentions in an inflammatory way, or if he's just being coy and silly. There have been a lot of people with very unusual political beliefs in Talossa, and paper anarchists are not even that unusual. What has drawn my attention is pretty much exactly what drew your attention.

[Éovart Andrinescù]

Maybe we should declare Fiôvă an "anarchist jurisdiction" in solidarity with New York and Portland.

Let's please not. It's a nice province. The last thing we need is a Makhnovite bandit orda roaming around the place requisitioning grain and conscripting people.

I think we should all pause to consider that, in our Big Neighbour, there is a scary "demonization " of anarchists going on in the service of the ongoing authoritarian crackdown, aka the Mussolini cosplay coming from the White House. I'd prefer we didn't start doing that here. I don't like the idea of a discussion on whether particular political views (outside those explicitly condoning bigotry and hatred of certain identities) are sufficiently Talossan.

The Seneschal doth project too much, methinks. This isn't HUAC or the Star Chamber. It's reasonable to have questions about a belief system that considers state power as such to be the primary enemy of justice and progress, given that we ourselves occupy something approximating a state with hierarchical institutions. I've never heard of any brand of anarchism that wants to "smash the state, except for this one particular nice state that we like".

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

This country once had an actual Italian neo-fascist as Seneschál. It is not appropriate to start politically policing new citizens at this point.

[NRB]

y'all had a fascist?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

y'all had a fascist?

Sorry to say but fascism has a long political history in Talossa. King Robert I was obsessed with fascist aesthetics and the symbol of his political party was the same as that of the Hungarian Arrow Cross movement for a while. Guess what "Benito" province USED to be called. :( Count Ián von Metairâ was a conservative Prime Minister from 1991-1994, who in the 1980s led the Talossan National Party, which would definitely be called "alt-right" by today's standards.

But this isn't just American teenagers cosplaying fascists. From Ár Päts, King Robert I's history of Talossa:

Alberto Manassero, a right-wing Italian political operative... was sworn in as interim PM on 6 March (1996).

Manassero worked for the Alleanza Nazionale, the heirs of the MSI, themselves the heirs of Mussolini's National Fascist Party. This was before my time so I didn't know the scumbag personally.

Oh, I just found out (I might have known but I forgot): an actual Anarchist Party ran in the February 1995 elections. So given all that, anyone clutching their pearls over anarchist citizens can get all the way into the sea.

[NRB]

to be honest I'm torn between, "that's concerning," and, "well, this is all just a hobby anyway"

[King Txec]

Don't be put off by some of the people here. Just keep interacting so we get to know you better.

[NRB]

presumably these people are gone now anyway, and like who cares if somebody wants to go on the internet to a fake country and RP a nazi i mean it's weird but, so is the whole idea of a fake country so, meh

[NRB]

anyway sorry for breaking, back in character now

[Açafat del Val]

to be honest I'm torn between, "that's concerning," and, "well, this is all just a hobby anyway"

Why not both? :D

I'm the youngster around these parts. Not in terms of age, but in terms of citizenship: I naturalized only barely 3 years ago now. Take it from me: Talossa is an amazing experience, but it doesn't push itself forward; you definitely have to make your own activities and, if you play your cards right, the right people will join in with you.

That's why I asked earlier about how you might turn your fascination into action. The most common mistake that I've seen among new citizens is that they expect things to just happen, without appreciating that things happen only because people choose to make them happen. If you end up naturalizing, you will never know how amazing Talossa is until or unless you get involved and take your own initiative.

WITH THAT SAID, do keep interacting! We'd love to have you here, even if the appearances don't seem so. In that spirit:

How are you involved in labor? Any story worth sharing?

[Açafat del Val]

presumably these people are gone now anyway, and like who cares if somebody wants to go on the internet to a fake country and RP a nazi i mean it's weird but, so is the whole idea of a fake country so, meh

A point of order: Talossa is not a fake country, unless you would consider yourself an extreme peculiarist.

anyway sorry for breaking, back in character now

Although, I have a new question now: How would you manage to take an oath of citizenship in good faith, if you admit that (a) Talossa is a "fake" country and (b) you are playing a character?

I want to be very firm but respectful on this point: Talossa is not a roleplaying game. What separates Talossa is that all of us take this seriously, use our real names (often not on Wittenberg, for obvious reasons), and are both earnest and sincere in our endeavors. I can promise that we have prosecuted and exiled folks in the past who did not represent themselves sincerely at time of immigration, or who turn out to be roleplayers, actors, and the like.

[King Txec]

use our real names (often not on Wittenberg, for obvious reasons)

Our Talossan names are our real names in a sense as they are our names in Talossan. No one has to convert his or her name but that is part of the fun - having a slightly different persona. I only know some real life non-Talossan names thanks to Facebook and/or Immigration threads. I also think some of Talossa is role-playing in the sense that where else in the world can I, a humble teacher, have been Prime Minister, an Uppermost Court Justice, Secretary of State, etc. except for in a place like Talossa? Here I can live out my wilder desires that are not quite as possible in the "real world".

[NRB]

to be honest I'm torn between, "that's concerning," and, "well, this is all just a hobby anyway"

Why not both? :D

I'm the youngster around these parts. Not in terms of age, but in terms of citizenship: I naturalized only barely 3 years ago now. Take it from me: Talossa is an amazing experience, but it doesn't push itself forward; you definitely have to make your own activities and, if you play your cards right, the right people will join in with you.

That's why I asked earlier about how you might turn your fascination into action. The most common mistake that I've seen among new citizens is that they expect things to just happen, without appreciating that things happen only because people choose to make them happen. If you end up naturalizing, you will never know how amazing Talossa is until or unless you get involved and take your own initiative.

WITH THAT SAID, do keep interacting! We'd love to have you here, even if the appearances don't seem so. In that spirit:

How are you involved in labor? Any story worth sharing?

I suppose it would be interesting to actually go forward like that, eh?

I wish I had more interesting stories to share - I'm in the Industrial Workers of the World and I've been to numerous protests though none lately because 1) covid-19, 2) my asthma has been way, way worse as of late and marching in the streets would be difficult, and 3) if I get arrested my wife will kill me

I suppose the most interesting thing I can say is I was at the protests for Donald Trump's inauguration. I was standing in front of a bunch of riot cops and when inauguration attendees would walk by me some would bump into me. Which is totally understandable! It was very crowded, and people often had no choice. However, every once in a while, somebody would bump into me with just a little extra force than was necessary. I was a little worried I'd get bumped into the riot cops and get my ass beat for backing into the cops, but I am a pretty big dude and knocking me back would be tough.

anyway I should have a photo of that and I will share if I can find it.