Committee of Legal Reforms

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Ah, I missed that before.  But I don't quite see this, still.  What in the Fourth Covenant provides a "right to property" or criminalizes embezzlement?  What in the Sixth Covenant criminalizes domestic violence?

Generally speaking, the Covenants are understood as a list of rights that citizens enjoy and upon which the Government cannot infringe.  The Ziu couldn't pass a law which would allow the A-X to read someone's correspondence, for example, unless that law required a warrant first.  But the Fourth Covenant protection against searches without a warrant doesn't extend to anyone else.  If I ran a mail service and told everyone I would be reading their mail if they used it, no one could sue me under the Fourth Covenant.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

What in the Fourth Covenant provides a "right to property" or criminalizes embezzlement?

"the right of the people to privacy and security in their persons, homes, papers, correspondence, and property, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

What in the Sixth Covenant criminalizes domestic violence?

"no right herein enumerated, or elsewhere recognised by the Cosa, shall extend to anyone engaged in activities which injure, endanger, risk or compromise the physical health, privacy, or tranquility of other persons"

Generally speaking, the Covenants are understood as a list of rights that citizens enjoy and upon which the Government cannot infringe.

No, that's just how you understand them, presumably on the analogy of the US Bill of Rights. But the Preamble states that "The Covenant of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in them to all Talossan citizens". It positively grants rights rather than negatively prevents infringements upon them.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Generally speaking, the Covenants are understood as a list of rights that citizens enjoy and upon which the Government cannot infringe.

No, that's just how you understand them, presumably on the analogy of the US Bill of Rights. But the Preamble states that "The Covenant of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in them to all Talossan citizens". It positively grants rights rather than negatively prevents infringements upon them.

The U.S. Bill of Rights was explicitly the model for the Covenants, and a great deal of the language is identical, and the Covenants have been generally understood as a guarantee against action against your rights.  This is clear when we look at the Tenth Covenant, which says that "[a]nyone whose rights and freedoms, as guaranteed by these Covenants, have been infringed or denied may appeal to a court of competent jurisdiction to obtain such redress of grievances as the court considers appropriate and just in the circumstances."  Neither here nor anywhere else are there provisions for the criminalization of such infringements.  If the Ziu passes a law restricting someone's religious liberty, then no one can prosecute the people who voted in favor in the Ziu imprisoned for their "crime" of passing a law that violated the Covenants, for example.

[Açafat del Val]

Apparently I had not logged into Witt since January 12, 2021. My god.

Can I make this "the thread" for discussion of reform? I guess I don't care if this thread falls on deaf ears a second time, but maybe I just want someone to scream "put up or shut up" at me so that I have a good excuse to do it anyways.

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

Apparently I had not logged into Witt since January 12, 2021. My god.

Can I make this "the thread" for discussion of reform? I guess I don't care if this thread falls on deaf ears a second time, but maybe I just want someone to scream "put up or shut up" at me so that I have a good excuse to do it anyways.

Please don't derail threads from their intended purposes. Thanks.

[Açafat del Val]

Apparently I had not logged into Witt since January 12, 2021. My god.

Can I make this "the thread" for discussion of reform? I guess I don't care if this thread falls on deaf ears a second time, but maybe I just want someone to scream "put up or shut up" at me so that I have a good excuse to do it anyways.

Please don't derail threads from their intended purposes. Thanks.

As the one who started this thread, it feels reasonable on my part that I should widen its scope and restart efforts of a committee of legal reforms.