Wittenberg

General => Wittenberg => Topic started by: Ian Plätschisch on July 09, 2020, 08:05:59 PM

Title: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Ian Plätschisch on July 09, 2020, 08:05:59 PM
Are you ready for a conservative party that actually does something?

For years, the representatives of Talossan conservatives in the Ziu have left much to be desired. Rarely did they ever take part in political discussion: As far back as the 50th Cosa, it was in fact the MRPT, not the RUMP, that did most of the campaigning in favor of a non-figurehead Monarchy. The 54th Cosa's attempt at conservative representation, the ZPT, was so hapless that it did not even claim its Cosa seats at all!

Talossans passionate about preserving the Monarchy deserve better representation than that.

Centrists, too, need an alternative to parties that embrace plans to disassemble the Senate and the provinces.

Finally, it has been ages since the Government had to deal with any serious opposition. Even if you are not a conservative, or if I am not your preferred spokesperson for Talossan conservatism, you have to admit I have been active in Talossa for more than five years, and that I know how to lead the effort to hold the governing parties to account. I know how they work; I've been in Government with them for the better part of those five years! Know your enemy.

Here in the League of Centre Conservatives, we have a very simple manifesto:
- We believe the King should be more than a powerless figurehead
- We believe the provinces, and their representation in the Senate, is an important facet of Talossan culture and politics
- We believe the Government should have to face an active opposition

Without the LCC, anyone more conservative than the Free Democrats (a serious chunk of Talossa's population, I'd say) would have no representation in the upcoming election. This is a large group of people to try to unify, consisting of many viewpoints, experiences, temperaments, prior political movements, etc. I named it "League" for a reason; I am not demanding your loyalty or writing a novella-length manifesto. The goal here is simple; give some amount of representation to a group of Talossans who have lacked it for a long time.

We are in pretty desperate need of citizens to hold our Cosa seats. Whether a citizen for one day or twenty years, if this message resonates with you, post here or send me a message.

Long live the King!

(https://i.imgur.com/DR6ry39.png)
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Ian Plätschisch on July 09, 2020, 08:10:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vr7nrmC.png)
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 09, 2020, 08:27:11 PM
(https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=349.0;attach=95)
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Cresti da Ion Nouacastra-Läxhirescu, MSC on July 09, 2020, 08:37:50 PM
Well, my question is what does the LCC intend to achieve that the AMP could not? And while on the topic, what really were some of the major accomplishments of the AMP?
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 09, 2020, 08:43:30 PM
Well, my question is what does the LCC intend to achieve that the AMP could not? And while on the topic, what really were some of the major accomplishments of the AMP?

To be fair, the essence of an appeal to a conservative audience is that you're not going to do things. But it seems that the appeal of the Big Box o' Beavers is "being active, while preventing future constitutional reform". So I suppose the record of activity of the Distáin is fair game.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Eðo Grischun on July 09, 2020, 09:08:23 PM
Well, my question is what does the LCC intend to achieve that the AMP could not? And while on the topic, what really were some of the major accomplishments of the AMP?

To be fair, the essence of an appeal to a conservative audience is that you're not going to do things. But it seems that the appeal of the Big Box o' Beavers is "being active, while preventing future constitutional reform". So I suppose the record of activity of the Distáin is fair game.

(https://nationalzoo.si.edu/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/beaver-well-dam_0.jpg?itok=Z4ziztZo)
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Ian Plätschisch on July 09, 2020, 09:15:16 PM
Well, my question is what does the LCC intend to achieve that the AMP could not? And while on the topic, what really were some of the major accomplishments of the AMP?
My experience with "selling" AMP to voters was that nobody could figure out what to make of it. It's platform was essentially a list of things that I personally wanted, and while I am very grateful to have gotten almost 20 votes in two elections, it was not a very sustainable way to run a party. By my assessment, the AMP brand quickly became associated with idiosyncratic policies that no one besides me could really support; that is fine for a think tank (which is how AMP still exists, by the way) but not really for a party.

For example, a major success of AMP was, in my estimation, prodding King John into a somewhat higher level of activity; I focused a lot of energy on the message "The Monarchy is great, but this guy has to step it up or go away." However, it was difficult to hold a stable coalition of voters because Monarchists don't like it that you are trying to sack the King willy-nilly and people who lean FreeDem don't like it that you are staunchly defending the Monarchy.

Another major success of AMP was finally getting the new OrgLaw through. However, the same problem arises; some people thought it went to far and some thought it didn't go far enough. Of course, this suggests the AMP should be supported by Talossa's moderate contingent, and I suspect that's where most of it's support was coming from, but even that was not a sure thing. AMP did not serve up the usual MRPT fare; some of the platform was quite conservative, some was quite not conservative, and a lot of it was just weird.

To recap the rest of AMP's accomplishments:
-A lot of legislation that reduces bureaucracy and (I hope) increases activity in several ways
-Our Ministers were fairly active
-To pat myself on the back a little bit, the AMP Manifestos and some of my writings in La S'chinteia were some top-notch thought leadership in their own right, even if you disagree with me

That seems like a good list of accomplishments to me. AMP was right for the moment. But the inherent instability of its support base, coupled with the collapse of all other conservative parties, convinced me of the need for a new party that more explicitly opposes proposals that I (and a lot of others) really do not like, and that does not have AMP's baggage.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Ian Plätschisch on July 09, 2020, 09:24:15 PM
Well, my question is what does the LCC intend to achieve that the AMP could not? And while on the topic, what really were some of the major accomplishments of the AMP?

To be fair, the essence of an appeal to a conservative audience is that you're not going to do things. But it seems that the appeal of the Big Box o' Beavers is "being active, while preventing future constitutional reform". So I suppose the record of activity of the Distáin is fair game.
I'd say conservatism is a lot more than "not doing things," and I actually agree with a lot of the FreeDem platform when it discusses ways to promote activity. However, I am not afraid to admit that I will oppose future constitutional reform if I think it will be bad.

I am literally the person who rewrote the entire Organic Law, so any argument to the effect of "don't vote for these chumps because they will reject any Organic reform out of hand" is not likely to get anywhere.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Ian Plätschisch on July 09, 2020, 09:27:06 PM
It certainly seems like I have ended up a conservative not because my views ever changed, but because I helped pass so many reforms that I inadvertently helped to push the Overton Window way left.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 09, 2020, 10:14:05 PM
This is in fact an occupational hazard - and this is why the Free Democrats keep having to step up the radicalism, or else end up in the position of the late ModRad party and become victims of our own success.

It has not escaped me that the Free Democrats are currently  finding it much easier to recruit people to our banner, not because of our policies or because of my sunny and welcoming personality, but simply because we are right now the dominant party in Talossa. 3 or 4 Cosas ago, this was the ModRads; before that, the RUMP. This will not last forever, and it would be easy to fall into the trap of becoming the "status quo party of technocratic administration", i.e. becoming what we always sneered at the RUMP for.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Cresti da Ion Nouacastra-Läxhirescu, MSC on July 10, 2020, 11:48:52 AM
Well, my question is what does the LCC intend to achieve that the AMP could not? And while on the topic, what really were some of the major accomplishments of the AMP?
My experience with "selling" AMP to voters was that nobody could figure out what to make of it. It's platform was essentially a list of things that I personally wanted, and while I am very grateful to have gotten almost 20 votes in two elections, it was not a very sustainable way to run a party. By my assessment, the AMP brand quickly became associated with idiosyncratic policies that no one besides me could really support; that is fine for a think tank (which is how AMP still exists, by the way) but not really for a party.

For example, a major success of AMP was, in my estimation, prodding King John into a somewhat higher level of activity; I focused a lot of energy on the message "The Monarchy is great, but this guy has to step it up or go away." However, it was difficult to hold a stable coalition of voters because Monarchists don't like it that you are trying to sack the King willy-nilly and people who lean FreeDem don't like it that you are staunchly defending the Monarchy.

Another major success of AMP was finally getting the new OrgLaw through. However, the same problem arises; some people thought it went to far and some thought it didn't go far enough. Of course, this suggests the AMP should be supported by Talossa's moderate contingent, and I suspect that's where most of it's support was coming from, but even that was not a sure thing. AMP did not serve up the usual MRPT fare; some of the platform was quite conservative, some was quite not conservative, and a lot of it was just weird.

To recap the rest of AMP's accomplishments:
-A lot of legislation that reduces bureaucracy and (I hope) increases activity in several ways
-Our Ministers were fairly active
-To pat myself on the back a little bit, the AMP Manifestos and some of my writings in La S'chinteia were some top-notch thought leadership in their own right, even if you disagree with me

That seems like a good list of accomplishments to me. AMP was right for the moment. But the inherent instability of its support base, coupled with the collapse of all other conservative parties, convinced me of the need for a new party that more explicitly opposes proposals that I (and a lot of others) really do not like, and that does not have AMP's baggage.
You claim that nobody could get behind your idiosyncratic views, and by admitting this, why not just support an existing party and align your views with theirs, as opposed to creating a whole new party, knowing the following won’t be large? Having been a member of the AMP, I can’t say that I ever truly knew what EXACTLY the party stood for. Yes, I can read manifestos all day every day and I do indeed admit that the writing was goos, but if nobody can truly understand or envision the type of government the AMP (and now the LCC) is trying to create, what’s the point?

You also mention nudging the King to become more active. Quite frankly, I saw no more/less activity than when before the AMP initially gained its votes. I think everyone, even outside of the AMP/LCC, wants the King to be more active both on and off Witt.

I’m in no way dissing the party, but these are things I’ve thought about personally, having been in the inside. 
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Ian Plätschisch on July 11, 2020, 09:34:59 AM
Had I known in advance I was going to have a hard time conveying exactly what I wanted AMP to stand for, I would have done some things differently. I didn’t go into it expecting that, so this critique boils down to a critique of my prophesy skills. I only arrived at these conclusions after some reflection.

As for the type of Government the LCC wants, that is very simple. Our manifesto is literally three sentences. Voters should have no trouble envisioning it.

There’s a difference between just wanting the King to be more active and actually doing something about it. A lot of the King’s most recent Independence Day speech, and some of his other statements, seemed to me like responses to AMP’s various statements and proposals.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 11, 2020, 03:40:20 PM
A lot of the King’s most recent Independence Day speech, and some of his other statements, seemed to me like responses to AMP’s various statements and proposals.

His Maj can speak for himself if he chooses; but Free Democrats would, naturally, prefer to ascribe it to the good personal relationship I've built with the King over my terms as Seneschál, despite our very different politics.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 13, 2020, 05:31:55 AM
What would an LCC govt. look like?  You're setting yourself up as an opposition, but what should happen if you win?

(https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=349.0;attach=98)
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Ian Plätschisch on July 13, 2020, 07:31:13 PM
A cabinet of talents, most likely.

It appears the defining feature of an NPW government would be too much comic sans.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: GV on July 14, 2020, 05:35:12 AM
Am I right in the League wanting a monarch who serves for life, can choose anyone they want to take the throne when they are done, and have veto power over legislation?  The house of ___blank___, ultimately unelected and un-removable save by a wisely-difficult method? 

This is good for Talossa?
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Ian Plätschisch on July 14, 2020, 06:22:04 AM
Am I right in the League wanting a monarch who serves for life, can choose anyone they want to take the throne when they are done, and have veto power over legislation?  The house of ___blank___, ultimately unelected and un-removable save by a wisely-difficult method? 

This is good for Talossa?
Serves for life? Yes, unless removed
Hereditary? No position, but presuming the Non-Hereditary Amendment passes the status quo will be no
With veto power? Yes, but the King’s veto today is a lot weaker than it was five years ago

Good for Talossa? That’s for voters to decide, and I bet many voters would say yes. This party isnt really being marketed to hardcore FreeDems such as yourself.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 16, 2020, 06:41:33 PM
I may have been away a while, but I have kept myself abreast of Talossan politics wherever possible. I do not like the way the country is headed under the Free Democrat leadership. When the liberal congress decided to merge with the ZRT all those years ago, I was fervently against it, mostly due to the slow power creep towards the Republicanism and I could not condone such actions. I see since my time away the situation has become even more DIRE! With the loss of the RUMP party and with obvious republican referenda I feel that the LCC is the last line of defense against the FreeDem onslaught on our great Kingdom. I hope I can help maintain the status quo! I think I may have beaver fever! If you still need bums for seats, I'm here for you!
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 16, 2020, 07:12:31 PM
It appears the defining feature of an NPW government would be too much comic sans.

No such thing!
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 16, 2020, 07:16:14 PM
(https://files.explosm.net/comics/Dave/comicsans2.png)
Title: We will destroy Talossa. Muahahaha...
Post by: GV on July 16, 2020, 07:25:48 PM
I may have been away a while, but I have kept myself abreast of Talossan politics wherever possible. I do not like the way the country is headed under the Free Democrat leadership. When the liberal congress decided to merge with the ZRT all those years ago, I was fervently against it, mostly due to the slow power creep towards the Republicanism and I could not condone such actions. I see since my time away the situation has become even more DIRE! With the loss of the RUMP party and with obvious republican referenda I feel that the LCC is the last line of defense against the FreeDem onslaught on our great Kingdom. I hope I can help maintain the status quo! I think I may have beaver fever! If you still need bums for seats, I'm here for you!

Your time is up, He-Man.  Soon King Randor will bow the knee to SkeleDaph who is merely an agent for Dan W***low, aka Hordak with his republican Horde.  Woodstock Talossa!  Rainbows!  Peace, love, and whimsy!  Unicorns, too!  Imagine all the people...

In all seriousness, the voters will act accordingly and remove from the monarchy its ability to, over years and decades, to diminish from its present dignified state to one where future heirs to John's throne will be far less-likely to do Talossa as enthusiastically as he has.  When was the last time Prince Patrick appeared on Witt?

We need a monarch who is active, continues to be active, and who truly wants to do Talossa.  I'm by no means convinced Patrick would be any of these things.  Yet, our laws have it he gets the throne once John is done (may that be many years off). 

How again is this good for Talossa?  Does Patrick even remember there is a Talossa?
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 16, 2020, 07:31:43 PM
A cabinet of talents, most likely.

Problem is that "cabinet of talents" (i.e. getting the most talented people into Govt, regardless of politics) is contradictory to a "strong opposition". It's much hardly to "strongly oppose" a technocratic government with no real politics apart from mushy consensus; even more so if everyone talented is in the Government, lol!
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 16, 2020, 07:33:16 PM
Hate to rain on your parade there, GV, but no-one out there knows Talossan history any more and has no clue who Dan W. was. :D

(Dan W. was a late 90's Seneschál who became a hate figure for KR1. I was his houseguest in San Francisco for a while. Nice guy, a college professor, haven't heard from him in 15 years.)

Anyway, as for Prince Patrick, he contacted me several years ago suggesting a programme of Talossan legal reforms. They weren't bad ideas, but I haven't seen him involved in Talossa in any way since. In any case, the LCC leader was the brains behind the Non-Hereditary Monarchy so he's not really affected by that line of questioning...
Title: Re: We will destroy Talossa. Muahahaha...
Post by: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 16, 2020, 07:57:50 PM
I may have been away a while, but I have kept myself abreast of Talossan politics wherever possible. I do not like the way the country is headed under the Free Democrat leadership. When the liberal congress decided to merge with the ZRT all those years ago, I was fervently against it, mostly due to the slow power creep towards the Republicanism and I could not condone such actions. I see since my time away the situation has become even more DIRE! With the loss of the RUMP party and with obvious republican referenda I feel that the LCC is the last line of defense against the FreeDem onslaught on our great Kingdom. I hope I can help maintain the status quo! I think I may have beaver fever! If you still need bums for seats, I'm here for you!

Your time is up, He-Man.  Soon King Randor will bow the knee to SkeleDaph who is merely an agent for Dan W***low, aka Hordak with his republican Horde.  Woodstock Talossa!  Rainbows!  Peace, love, and whimsy!  Unicorns, too!  Imagine all the people...

In all seriousness, the voters will act accordingly and remove from the monarchy its ability to, over years and decades, to diminish from its present dignified state to one where future heirs to John's throne will be far less-likely to do Talossa as enthusiastically as he has.  When was the last time Prince Patrick appeared on Witt?

We need a monarch who is active, continues to be active, and who truly wants to do Talossa.  I'm by no means convinced Patrick would be any of these things.  Yet, our laws have it he gets the throne once John is done (may that be many years off). 

How again is this good for Talossa?  Does Patrick even remember there is a Talossa?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FPFCpth6no (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FPFCpth6no)

That aside, Its already on the docket, if it passes it passes. Though to be fair, its not true republicanism in its form, but its its a symptom of a progressive creep. The FreeDem Modus Operandi, even if it now more covert than than the ZRT before it, is to eat away at the powers of the monarchy, till there's nothing left. Its plain to see and I for one think its high time for a change! And I by change I mean the monercy should be maintained, not tarnished and tossed aside. The rot must be stopped!
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 16, 2020, 07:59:30 PM
What we really need is MORE Kings.  Double Your Pleasure, Double the Fun.
Title: Re: Announcing the League of Centre Conservatives
Post by: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 18, 2020, 04:36:36 PM
I made a thing xD