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Author Topic: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!  (Read 1928 times)

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).

That's because, if you'll forgive me saying so, the dual-king proposal is totally irrelevant. It doesn't deal with any of the problems which Free Democrats have with the current monarchy, nor does it defend the idea of monarchy supported by the LCC.

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Offline DNVercaria

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Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).

That's because, if you'll forgive me saying so, the dual-king proposal is totally irrelevant. It doesn't deal with any of the problems which Free Democrats have with the current monarchy, nor does it defend the idea of monarchy supported by the LCC.

Insomuch as it is an attempt of offering a third way between republicanism and monarchism, it is a noble attempt of finding a truly uniting, pacifying solution for this still deeply split nationette. Do we really want to remain stuck in politics as some kind of a binary team sport forever? Good on the NPW for trying to break this mental blockade.

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)

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Offline DNVercaria

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Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)
 

I don't want you to shut up. All I want to say is that I disagree wholeheartedly when this word "irrelevant" is popping up in the context of the proposal of  the NPW.  8)

Offline Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu

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Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).

That's because, if you'll forgive me saying so, the dual-king proposal is totally irrelevant. It doesn't deal with any of the problems which Free Democrats have with the current monarchy, nor does it defend the idea of monarchy supported by the LCC.

Irrelevant?  To whom?  It's a major platform plank of one of the three political parties currently active in Talossa.

This simply screams that it's more important to "score points" off the party one finds to be the biggest threat than actually engage in political discourse.  The FreeDems and the LCC simply tear at each other.
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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*groans*

Kneejerk reactions here. You asked my opinions of your proposal: I said "I don't have one because it's not relevant to me, i.e. it deals with 0% of the issues I have with the Talossan monarchy". Don't ask to be taken seriously, then complain when you are. Instead, take it as feedback: a political proposal has to deal with actually-existing social issues to be relevant.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 06:04:25 PM by Miestră Schivă, UrN »

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Offline Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù

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With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.
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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)
I didn't see him say you were being offensive or personally attacking you.  He just said he thought you were wrong.
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Eðo Grischun

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With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.

Thing is, the person making it personal here seems to be you. Miestra may be rough in her debating style, but at least the meat of her argument attacks the policies of the opposition.  You, on the other hand, are doing just exactly what you claim her to be doing (though she isn't), and that being focusing your attack on her personality, ad hominem.

Miestra has put forward her argument that she disagrees with certain policies.  Instead of retorting by defending those policies you choose to attack her personality and falsely equate her to our Nation's bogeyman from the past to down her.

I am aware that I am guilty, to a degree, here of playing "tu quoque", but still, and seriously, you might think you are somehow arguing the righteous and admirable position here, but you're just being the exact thing you are claiming to stand against.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 07:21:06 PM by Eðo Grischun »
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Offline Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù

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With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.

Thing is, the person making it personal here seems to be you. Miestra may be rough in her debating style, but at least the meat of her argument attacks the policies of the opposition.  You, on the other hand, are doing just exactly what you claim her to be doing (though she isn't), and that being focusing your attack on her personality, ad hominem.

Miestra has put forward her argument that she disagrees with certain policies.  Instead of retorting by defending those policies you choose to attack her personality and falsely equate her to our Nation's bogeyman from the past to down her.

I am aware that I am guilty, to a degree, here of playing "tu quoque", but still, and seriously, you might think you are somehow arguing the righteous and admirable position here, but you're just being the exact thing you are claiming to stand against.

I see the hypocrisy.

I just shouldnt have to point it out in the first place. the shoe sure as hell doesn't fit me, somone else will have have to wear it.
Túischac'h of the 55th Cosa
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Offline Eðo Grischun

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With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.

Thing is, the person making it personal here seems to be you. Miestra may be rough in her debating style, but at least the meat of her argument attacks the policies of the opposition.  You, on the other hand, are doing just exactly what you claim her to be doing (though she isn't), and that being focusing your attack on her personality, ad hominem.

Miestra has put forward her argument that she disagrees with certain policies.  Instead of retorting by defending those policies you choose to attack her personality and falsely equate her to our Nation's bogeyman from the past to down her.

I am aware that I am guilty, to a degree, here of playing "tu quoque", but still, and seriously, you might think you are somehow arguing the righteous and admirable position here, but you're just being the exact thing you are claiming to stand against.

I see the hypocrisy.

I just shouldnt have to point it out in the first place. the shoe sure as hell doesn't fit me, somone else will have have to wear it.

I wasn't calling you out on hypocrisy.  I was saying you are flat out wrong.
The Rt. Hon. Senator Éovart Grischun S.H.

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Senator of Vuode

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Miestrâ has more enemies than the rest of us put together.
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2020, 10:53:14 PM »
The above is what I keep misreading the title of this thread as. It's just as accurate.

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Offline Ián S.G. Txaglh

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so this is what english speakers call a shitstorm, am i right? nice. i always like illustrative examples when learning new words.

and now for something compleeeetely different. guys, could the main reason for appalling attractive of talossa be not the freedems government but simply that we and world around us are changing radically? obviously, some of you have mentioned that outside life takes our attention, but more importantly, i see it on me, the everyday grinding mill of wurck, family and suchs strips me of spontaneousness and creativity. not that i do not want to, i simply cannot. time to time i whip up me myself to do something, but mostly i live in series of slightly variable stereotypes. i do not complain. i accept it as an inevitable necessity of progressing human life. i resist whenever i may, but do not let it fall on me.

next, the form of talossa needs also not to the most attractive to people with so so many possibilities to be with other people. let's face that, fascination of "playing" or "being" a nationette fades face to face the new world. what was new and funny in 90ies is an old, worn shirt in 2020. yes, there are still lots of youngsters doing micronations (yes, yes, i know), but in their own way mostly. talossan tradition seems to not so appealing in contrast to do things on their own, with their close friends.

i am also conlanger since ages and i still move around young conlangers, but their motivations and work differs from mine/people of my generation a lot and in many aspects.

talossa never really turned into multigeneration ship, we should not blame ourselves. culture changes and soon we will turn into a museum exhibit. let us enjoy what we have without stupid bickering and try to attract at least those rare freaks who want to cosplay nationette citizens ;) and it can be hardly done when the only thing they see are old cocks on a heap of manure fighting, pardon my klatchian. being honest is fine, being responsible is good, being too serious never is of any benefit for a jolly company. i am rosenbergian nice nihilist, i love fun (it is the very one good thing we give one to each other) and i refuse, yes, i refuse to stand by such pointless debate as presented in this threat. this is far beyond political discussion, far off of friendly teasing. howgh.
ián suôrsch grültcätsfiglheu txáglh
:: attention, professeur méchant ::


Offline Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu

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Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)

Churches!  Gravy!  Very Small Rocks!
Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu
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Online Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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next, the form of talossa needs also not to the most attractive to people with so so many possibilities to be with other people. let's face that, fascination of "playing" or "being" a nationette fades face to face the new world. what was new and funny in 90ies is an old, worn shirt in 2020. yes, there are still lots of youngsters doing micronations (yes, yes, i know), but in their own way mostly. talossan tradition seems to not so appealing in contrast to do things on their own, with their close friends.
So, the appeal of micronations hasnt diminished since the 90s. Instead, people do the exact same thing that lead to the creation of Talossa in the first place: "do[ing] things on their own, with their close friends". In fact, creating a micronation has never been easier, and there are a whole bunch of online meeting places where micronations can interact with each other (often in toxic, cringy ways -- I suppose that's what Ben meant by "bug nation"). What's stopping us from doing more publicity for ourselves? Sealand continues to be wellknown even outside the micronational community, and they have waaaaaaaaaaay less to offer than us.

Quote
i am also conlanger since ages and i still move around young conlangers, but their motivations and work differs from mine/people of my generation a lot and in many aspects.
As a young (I guess) conlanger myself, I'd love to know what exactly you mean by that.
EDIT: On a different note, could I interest you in joining SIGN?

Quote
talossa never really turned into multigeneration ship, we should not blame ourselves. culture changes and soon we will turn into a museum exhibit.
But why does it have to be like this? If culture can change, why can't we? (that's a trick question, we do change -- the early 2010s are as ancient as the 1980s)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 12:18:00 PM by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial »
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