The Fleecing Act

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

WHEREAS Article III of the Organic Law as amended by 54RZ16 now states, in part:

The Secretary of State may request from all successful candidates in a Senäts election a registration fee, to be set by law, to cover the cost of the election. This fee shall be uniform for all successful candidates.

AND WHEREAS the noble Senator from Maricopa has characterised this as "fleecing":

BE IT ENACTED by the King, Cosă and Senäts in Ziu assembled that Section B.9 of El Lexhatx is replaced in its entirety as follows:

9. The Secretary of State, or his appointed agent, shall charge a registration fee of 6¤40 (six louise and forty bence, equivalent to $10 USD) to each political party, and a registration fee of 3¤20 (three louise and twenty bence, equivalent to $5 USD) to each successful candidate in a Senäts election. in forthcoming elections. Any Party or Parties which fail or refuse to pay the fee shall be deemed not registered, and no successful candidate in a Senäts election shall be declared elected until they pay the fee. (53RZ22) (48PD02) (42RZ14)

    9.1. The fee may only be paid by:

        9.1.1. Sending a Money Order, Cash or Cheque by snail mail to the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue: Only fees which have been received in full, by the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue will be deemed paid. Fees that are in transit, delayed, lost in the mail or not received by the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue for any reason, shall not count as paid fees, even if accompanied with proof of postage. Payments made by Money Order or Cheque shall not be deemed as paid until they have been cleared, the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue, will notify the nation when such fees have cleared or if said payments have bounced. If a party's or successful candidate's cheque or money order bounces, they shall be liable to pay costs incurred by the Kingdom for their payment bouncing and shall not be registered until their fee plus these costs have been paid.

        9.1.2. PayPal: Fees may be paid by electronically transferring the appropriate funds into the Kingdom of Talossa's PayPal account managed by the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue. The Burgermeister of Inland Revenue is to notify all Political Parties in advance of the Election of details regarding the PayPal account into which they may deposit their fee. Once a fee has been received by the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue from a party or successful candidate, he shall notify the Nation publicly that said fee has been received and arrange for said fee to be deposited in the Kingdom's Account.

        9.1.3. Payment directly to the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue: Payment may be made directly in person to the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue, by cash, cheque or money order. The Burgermeister of Inland Revenue shall notify the nation which such payments have been received. The policy of Cheque and Money orders in 9.2.1. applies equally in this instance.

    9.2. Once a fee has been received by the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue and/or their appointed agents, it is not refundable for any reason. If, however, a party or successful candidate overpays or pays more than once for any given election period, excess fees may be credited to the party or successful candidate against their next payment of fees or refunded, at the discretion of the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue, minus any fees or costs incurred.

9.3. A Senator who was not elected, but appointed under the provisions of Organic Law III.7, will not be liable for any fee.

[Açafat del Val]

If I were to stand for reelection, and if I were reelected as Senator, I would be happy to pay this fee.

I am evidently not so cheap and unpatriotic as my colleague from Maricopa; one would think that a Senator of Talossa should be honored and grateful to support his country financially.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

Isn't the PayPal also administered by the BIR rather than the MinFin?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I believe you're right, but this is the existing law with just Senäts candidates added in. I encourage amendments to better reflect reality.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

I believe you're right, but this is the existing law with just Senäts candidates added in. I encourage amendments to better reflect reality.

I propose an amendment to replace the references to MinFin with references to the BIR.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I think that's done now?

[C. M. Siervicül]

If I were to stand for reelection, and if I were reelected as Senator, I would be happy to pay this fee.

I am evidently not so cheap and unpatriotic as my colleague from Maricopa; one would think that a Senator of Talossa should be honored and grateful to support his country financially.

Lack of patriotism is not the only reason one might have a problem with paying a fee to serve in the Senäts. A candidate who is, say, 15 or 16 years old might not have a means of paying online. For a candidate in a developing country, coming up with US$5 in cash as well as postage to mail it internationally may be a challenge.

About the bill itself (not a reply to you), I think the jab at the Senator from Maricopa is a bit petty to include in a statute proposed for enactment by the Ziu.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Lack of patriotism is not the only reason one might have a problem with paying a fee to serve in the Senäts. A candidate who is, say, 15 or 16 years old might not have a means of paying online. For a candidate in a developing country, coming up with US$5 in cash as well as postage to mail it internationally may be a challenge.

All of these caveats apply to the 6¤40 Cosă fee as well (if not doubly), don't they?

[C. M. Siervicül]

All of these caveats apply to the 6¤40 Cosă fee as well (if not doubly), don't they?

Yes, except for the fact that parties are typically groups and therefore the burden of a registration fee is split across multiple people, whereas the burden of a Senate fee is more likely to fall on an individual. I've long been skeptical of the registration fee for parties, too (back when it was $20 I proposed a bill to reduce it to $5, which was followed by Sir Alexandreu's successful proposal to cut it to $10). But the bigger point is that even if we think some kind of registration fee is unavoidable and that equity requires that senators or senate candidates share the burden somehow, let's not unthinkingly impugn the patriotism of those who might be impacted by the fee.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Jab? What jab? I explicitly say in honour of BenArd.

Talossa needs to be funded somehow. At the moment, almost all our income comes out of Cosa election registration fees. This is the first step to a broader tax base (the Free Democrats intend to make others this term, if the Ziu will). The Senäts fee does not stop anyone running for election, the fee only becomes a problem if they win. I am heartily skeptical that Kids These Days don't have some kind of online payment mechanism. If, on the other hand, a Senator were to be elected from a country where $US5 is a day's wages, then I will happily pay that fee myself.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

The most recent budget shows that we paid for almost the whole of our annual mandatory expenses (ie webhosting) from one term's worth of stamp sales, coin sales, and interest.  It seems as though we could fairly easily eliminate all election fees, rather than boosting them -- especially if we actually work to promote our stocks ($2600 or so in value, sitting on shelves) and run a contribution program (such as a GoFundMe for the webhosting fees).  Ideally, it should be free to participate in every aspect of Talossa if we can manage it.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Ian P ran that promotion to keep people editing the wiki, and that might be a great example of how to pay our modest fees without charging for political participation any more.  A ceremonial PD and silly stunts by the Seneschal could get a GoFundMe done in like two weeks.

For that matter, it would be good to bring that back, even if it is just for the wiki again.  Basic stuff is falling behind almost everywhere.

[Eðo Grischun]

The most recent budget shows that we paid for almost the whole of our annual mandatory expenses (ie webhosting) from one term's worth of stamp sales, coin sales, and interest.  It seems as though we could fairly easily eliminate all election fees, rather than boosting them -- especially if we actually work to promote our stocks ($2600 or so in value, sitting on shelves) and run a contribution program (such as a GoFundMe for the webhosting fees).  Ideally, it should be free to participate in every aspect of Talossa if we can manage it.

If we get to the point where voluntary taxation starts to equal the webhost costs... but, that is not the case.

Anyway, this is an easy topic for the opposition to score some lazy political points with. There is nothing wrong with Talossa trying to increase its income so that we may look to increase what we regularly can afford to buy... say, Facebook Ad boosts or some targeted Google Ads to try and increase immigration and sort out that terrible growth problem that you harp on about.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

If the people of Talossa wanted silly stunts from their Seneschál, they would have voted LCC in greater numbers. Of course, Senator Plätschisch is free to do silly stunts as OppLeader. I'll happily chip in to see that happen.

Anyway, Senator Grischün makes a good point about paid advertising. Another thing we might want to consider is actual honoraria for people who do work for Talossa... maybe even outside experts. I am thinking, off the top of my head, of my non-Talossan friend who helped us fix the Wiki after Lüc disappeared.

[King Txec]

Basic stuff is falling behind almost everywhere.

It is so easy to criticize and point things out when you don't do anything or volunteer your efforts.

[Eðo Grischun]

Basic stuff is falling behind almost everywhere.

It is so easy to criticize and point things out when you don't do anything or volunteer your efforts.

We should actually give him credit where it's due on this one.

Some basic stuff did fall behind last term. Particularly, the usage of the Kingdom's social media which was woefully underused by the previous Minister, who actually happens to now be the leader of the party that Sir Davinescu now supports.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

The Senator from Florencia has commented to me about how astounded he is at the political tribalism coming out of LCC and its supporters since the election, and I think he has a point. It's "Scientology ethics": someone who's on your political team is held blameless for anything, while an opponent will be impeached for sneezing incorrectly.

But I know that the LCC leader, the Senator from Maritiimi-Maxhestic, doesn't approve of that crap himself, and I've dropped him a note asking him to keep them quiet in the cheap seats.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

The most recent budget shows that we paid for almost the whole of our annual mandatory expenses (ie webhosting) from one term's worth of stamp sales, coin sales, and interest.  It seems as though we could fairly easily eliminate all election fees, rather than boosting them -- especially if we actually work to promote our stocks ($2600 or so in value, sitting on shelves) and run a contribution program (such as a GoFundMe for the webhosting fees).  Ideally, it should be free to participate in every aspect of Talossa if we can manage it.

If we get to the point where voluntary taxation starts to equal the webhost costs... but, that is not the case.

I literally just detailed how we are already at the point where we don't need to charge people to be in politics.  And if we did even a small effort at voluntary fundraising, we'd be nearly certain to run a surplus even without fees to hold office.  What, are we going to fail to raise the additional $10 over the course of eight months?

Basic stuff is falling behind almost everywhere.

It is so easy to criticize and point things out when you don't do anything or volunteer your efforts.

Bold words, especially without looking at Recent Changes to see my contributions.  But even if I hadn't had a chance to edit it recently, I think I probably have done enough with the wiki to merit the simple privilege of sounding the alarm.

And anyway, I reject this philosophy of "don't point out problems unless you can personally fix them."

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Also, and this may shock you, but it's possible to hear me say that basic stuff is falling behind at the wiki and just agree because it's true.  I didn't say "and it's your fault because you personally are responsible for doing it."  Updating the wiki isn't the job of the Government.  Agreeing that a problem exists doesn't mean you've lost an imaginary Talossa Point.  It means we have a problem, as a country, that we need to fix.

Maybe you guys are outraged at the level of partisan attacks because you're perceiving everything as a partisan attack.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Let's just quote from the classics here.

Alexandreu, va estimat amic, I'm afraid that, based on your Talossan track history, everything you say ever is justifiably interpreted as a partisan attack. Look at that quote in my signature. You have spent almost 15 years fighting what are now the politics of the incumbent government, accusing supporters of those politics of all kinds of malfeasance ("ex parte corruption", "betrayed stolen kept", etc)., and are most recently on record as saying that the best thing the incumbent Seneschal can do for Talossa is resign and become inactive. No matter whether or not you are an active member of a political party or an elected official, you're as non-partisan as Sean Hannity or Al Franken.