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Author Topic: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?  (Read 654 times)

Offline Glüc da Dhi S.H.

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No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« on: September 17, 2020, 02:04:07 PM »
Reading through old threads is something that all Talossans should do frequently (although please avoid the many threads where I say stupid things I now regret).

https://talossa.proboards.com/thread/7972/petition-happier-kingdom

To clarify: I'm not endorsing the original post.  I think political attacks are part of a democracy, and are fine, as long as people play the ball and not the person. I just think the thread is a very interesting read, for various reasons.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 02:16:26 PM by Glüc da Dhi S.H. »

Offline Glüc da Dhi S.H.

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2020, 02:04:33 PM »

Disclaimer: Sondra Lomaira and Sarac'h Txilvertescu both later turned out to be ESB sockpuppets, which puts the things they are saying in a rather different perspective
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 02:17:56 PM by Glüc da Dhi S.H. »

Offline Glüc da Dhi S.H.

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 02:06:27 PM »
Also, I forgot Miestra's thunderdome suggestion was that old. I thought the idea originated much later.

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2020, 02:22:45 PM »
The Thunderdome is not actually an original idea from me. I got it from online forums organising anti-Scientology activism; many of those people came from 4chan and similar hives of scum and villainy, so the problem of "balancing free speech with keeping flamewars from taking over the board plus fights being free entertainment" was a pressing one.

For me, the most ironic thing about that thread is that the person who started it was also on record saying that "the Republicans" were a major problem in Talossa. He was just allergic to people disagreeing, and his solution to that was shutting people up / political exclusions.

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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2020, 02:45:30 PM »
I really enjoyed reading this thread, and stand by what I said all those years ago. Purportedly apolitical policing of speech is dangerous, and we would do well to try to keep political discussions more centralized and a lot of the general interests harmless chatting stuff should probably go on this board instead of a hidden board. Maybe this is something Txec could think about in terms of a renaming or reorganization of the boards to try to normalize chatting in a more casual way here, If he likes the idea.

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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2020, 02:47:15 PM »

Disclaimer: Sondra Lomaira and Sarac'h Txilvertescu both later turned out to be ESB sockpuppets, which puts the things they are saying in a rather different perspective

Yeah, it's kind of amazing to look back at discussions around this time and see how much of it was one person controlling half the conversation from multiple fictional people. I like the tag out of one personality and tag in of the next!
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2020, 03:10:08 PM »
I am in favor of having a place where all the loud arguments can go that won't interfere with the other stuff that is happening. Reading the latest 59 sometimes becomes an effort in scrolling to get to things I need to read. I'm not entirely sure how I'd organize a Thunderdome and I also don't want to be blamed for moving things to it or be seen as being a censor.

If there is general agreement I'll re-create the Thunderdome. I'm also thinking that I can add something to Wittiquette with whatever criteria I will use to determine how threads get moved.
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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2020, 03:33:23 PM »
I am in favor of having a place where all the loud arguments can go that won't interfere with the other stuff that is happening. Reading the latest 59 sometimes becomes an effort in scrolling to get to things I need to read. I'm not entirely sure how I'd organize a Thunderdome and I also don't want to be blamed for moving things to it or be seen as being a censor.

If there is general agreement I'll re-create the Thunderdome. I'm also thinking that I can add something to Wittiquette with whatever criteria I will use to determine how threads get moved.
There is definitely not general agreement. I vociferously disagree with any person in power getting to censor speech by removing it from the public square and putting it out of sight based on whether or not they think the tone or topic is to their liking. The only time the government should get to interfere with the free speech of its citizens is if there is some sort of check on this power and if it is for the fairly unambiguous good of the public order.

I know it's well intentioned now, but it will be way too easily abused by someone less scrupulous than you.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 03:35:31 PM by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu »
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Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2020, 03:40:20 PM »
Personally I'm pretty tired of random threads becoming partisan battlegrounds overnight, but I dont know what to do about this. Maybe instead of banishing political talk into its own section, we could reverse it and have a section in which political talk is banned instead -- thats what the people at r/unitedkingdom did when they collectively moved to r/casualuk and left the pundits to bicker at the old place. I'm not particularly attached to that idea though, just some food for thought.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 03:43:46 PM by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial »
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
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Offline Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2020, 03:46:48 PM »
I'm not actually in the government. I'm a civil servant. Just FYI.
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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2020, 04:08:30 PM »
I'm not actually in the government. I'm a civil servant. Just FYI.
Small g government, yes :-)
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2020, 04:09:29 PM »
Personally I'm pretty tired of random threads becoming partisan battlegrounds overnight, but I dont know what to do about this. Maybe instead of banishing political talk into its own section, we could reverse it and have a section in which political talk is banned instead -- thats what the people at r/unitedkingdom did when they collectively moved to r/casualuk and left the pundits to bicker at the old place. I'm not particularly attached to that idea though, just some food for thought.
I think nudging would get us a lot of the way there. Merge the chat room and this board, create a new chat called political discussion, and encourage a norm where people start or continue political discussions there.
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2020, 04:14:22 PM »
Merge the chat room and this board, create a new chat called political discussion, and encourage a norm where people start or continue political discussions there.

Wait, how would that be different from having another Thunderdome (albeit with better PR)?
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
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Offline Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2020, 04:35:25 PM »
Merge the chat room and this board, create a new chat called political discussion, and encourage a norm where people start or continue political discussions there.

That's certainly a feasible idea.
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Offline Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM

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Re: No political arguments = Happier Talossa?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2020, 04:35:57 PM »
I'm not actually in the government. I'm a civil servant. Just FYI.
Small g government, yes :-)

Txec <--- tired teacher brain.
Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM
Secretary of State
Scribe of Abbavilla
Justice Emeritus of the Uppermost Cort
Dal Kingsbridge Pursuivant
Former Seneschal