VOTING: The Ranked Choice Constitutional Referendum

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

The tiresome legerdemain of the referendum was predictable.  A simple vote on "Do You Want A King" Per/Non would result in a King.

http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~unger/articles/irv.html

1) Why was this only brought up after the results were announced?
2) How can you say that for certain? Wouldnt that depend on how the role of the King would be defined?

EDIT: As an example:
-- "Do you want to continue the Status Quo?" wouldve been rejected 23 - 49.
-- A vote between an Elected Head of State vs a Status Quo King as the only two options wouldve resulted in a win for the first option by 34 - 32.
-- Only if you phrase the question as "Do you want one or more Kings who may or may not hold that office for life, may or may not be subject to term limits and may or may not have the political powers granted by the current Organic Law?" the vote wouldve yielded a Per majority of at least 42 - 34. I say at least because that question wouldve included people who want a future elected Head of State to retain the title of King among the Per voters.

[xpb]

The tiresome legerdemain of the referendum was predictable.  A simple vote on "Do You Want A King" Per/Non would result in a King.

http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~unger/articles/irv.html

1) Why was this only brought up after the results were announced?
2) How can you say that for certain? Wouldnt that depend on how the role of the King would be defined?

1. I sent my opinions via private messages to elected officials.  I was not selected to the governing body that proposed the legislation.
2. I cannot say for certain, it is only my opinion that the referendum set out to clone options rather than having a clear per/non choice.  One potential purpose of that is to obfuscate by stringing out the options simultaneously, rather than having binary decisions for various powers.

[esbornatfiglheu]

The tiresome legerdemain of the referendum was predictable.  A simple vote on "Do You Want A King" Per/Non would result in a King.

http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~unger/articles/irv.html

Honestly, I'm not so sure that it would.  There are a lot of Peculiarists with a Republican stripe, and if they'd coalesced around an elected head of state, then the results could've been a larger margin for elected head of state.

[Ian Plätschisch]

The tiresome legerdemain of the referendum was predictable.  A simple vote on "Do You Want A King" Per/Non would result in a King.

http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~unger/articles/irv.html

Let's not be sore losers. I highly doubt anyone was so confused by the ballot that they didn't vote, and (as demonstrated above) this referendum was not subject to any of the criticisms in the article you cited.

[xpb]

The tiresome legerdemain of the referendum was predictable.  A simple vote on "Do You Want A King" Per/Non would result in a King.

http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~unger/articles/irv.html

Let's not be sore losers. I highly doubt anyone was so confused by the ballot that they didn't vote, and (as demonstrated above) this referendum was not subject to any of the criticisms in the article you cited.

and

The tiresome legerdemain of the referendum was predictable.  A simple vote on "Do You Want A King" Per/Non would result in a King.

http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~unger/articles/irv.html

Honestly, I'm not so sure that it would.  There are a lot of Peculiarists with a Republican stripe, and if they'd coalesced around an elected head of state, then the results could've been a larger margin for elected head of state.

Both of those are certainly valid opinions, but do little to modify my stance which I have stated more clearly in Potential for a constitutional amendment referendum to the citizens of Cézembre.  It is entirely possible my opinion will also be repudiated at the local level, but until such time as I am replaced, I shall continue to support the Monarchy as my elected powers provide.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Both of those are certainly valid opinions, but do little to modify my stance which I have stated more clearly in Potential for a constitutional amendment referendum to the citizens of Cézembre.  It is entirely possible my opinion will also be repudiated at the local level, but until such time as I am replaced, I shall continue to support the Monarchy as my elected powers provide.

Whats interesting here is that, since its not specified anywhere in the Cézembrean constitution who the King is, or that the King must hold that office for life in order to be legitimate, there would be no need to change the Cézembrean constitution if the future elected Head of State retains the title of King and the country continues to call itself the Kingdom of Talossa, assuming the referendum results actually lead to any changes to the Organic Law of course.

I cant help but feel like youre being overly hasty here.

[xpb]

Both of those are certainly valid opinions, but do little to modify my stance which I have stated more clearly in Potential for a constitutional amendment referendum to the citizens of Cézembre.  It is entirely possible my opinion will also be repudiated at the local level, but until such time as I am replaced, I shall continue to support the Monarchy as my elected powers provide.

Whats interesting here is that, since its not specified anywhere in the Cézembrean constitution who the King is, or that the King must hold that office for life in order to be legitimate, there would be no need to change the Cézembrean constitution if the future elected Head of State retains the title of King and the country continues to call itself the Kingdom of Talossa, assuming the referendum results actually lead to any changes to the Organic Law of course.

I cant help but feel like youre being overly hasty here.

You are correct that a Head of State could be declared King or Queen (there could be an introduction into the CAG that the gender should be flexible for Kingdom or Queendom).  There was an election back in the day for King John, but only after there was an abdication.  I believe in the current thought process is that the Head of State would be elected on a periodic basis, rather than holding the title until abdication or death.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

You are correct that a Head of State could be declared King or Queen (there could be an introduction into the CAG that the gender should be flexible for Kingdom or Queendom).  There was an election back in the day for King John, but only after there was an abdication.  I believe in the current thought process is that the Head of State would be elected on a periodic basis, rather than holding the title until abdication or death.

My idea for an elected Head of State without breaking too many other things was to basically automatically force the King to abdicate after a certain number of years (I believe it was five or so) and trigger a new election that way. Everything else would stay the same.

As for making the name of the country gender-dependent (Kingdom vs Queendom), I believe that this is unnecessary. Not just because no Romance language that I know of has a separate word for "queendom" so coining one in Talossan would be extra unnatural, but because theres a historical precedent for calling the Talossan monarch "King" regardless of gender.

[xpb]

You are correct that a Head of State could be declared King or Queen (there could be an introduction into the CAG that the gender should be flexible for Kingdom or Queendom).  There was an election back in the day for King John, but only after there was an abdication.  I believe in the current thought process is that the Head of State would be elected on a periodic basis, rather than holding the title until abdication or death.

My idea for an elected Head of State without breaking too many other things was to basically automatically force the King to abdicate after a certain number of years (I believe it was five or so) and trigger a new election that way. Everything else would stay the same.

As for making the name of the country gender-dependent (Kingdom vs Queendom), I believe that this is unnecessary. Not just because no Romance language that I know of has a separate word for "queendom" so coining one in Talossan would be extra unnatural, but because theres a historical precedent for calling the Talossan monarch "King" regardless of gender.

From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/queendom

queen·​dom | \ ˈkwēndəm \
plural -s
Definition of queendom
1: the state or territory ruled by a queen
2: the position of a queen

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Y-yeah, I know what it means, I'm just saying it doesnt fit the Talossan language aesthetically or pragmatically.

[xpb]

You are correct that a Head of State could be declared King or Queen (there could be an introduction into the CAG that the gender should be flexible for Kingdom or Queendom).  There was an election back in the day for King John, but only after there was an abdication.  I believe in the current thought process is that the Head of State would be elected on a periodic basis, rather than holding the title until abdication or death.

My idea for an elected Head of State without breaking too many other things was to basically automatically force the King to abdicate after a certain number of years (I believe it was five or so) and trigger a new election that way. Everything else would stay the same.

As for making the name of the country gender-dependent (Kingdom vs Queendom), I believe that this is unnecessary. Not just because no Romance language that I know of has a separate word for "queendom" so coining one in Talossan would be extra unnatural, but because theres a historical precedent for calling the Talossan monarch "King" regardless of gender.

From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/queendom

queen·​dom | \ ˈkwēndəm \
plural -s
Definition of queendom
1: the state or territory ruled by a queen
2: the position of a queen

While used in a different context, as recently as 22 January 2021 France TV has used the term Queendom https://www.france.tv/slash/queendom/

[xpb]

My apologies for taking this on too much of a tangent - I will confine my futher comments on the matter to threads within Cézembre.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

My idea for an elected Head of State without breaking too many other things was to basically automatically force the King to abdicate after a certain number of years (I believe it was five or so) and trigger a new election that way. Everything else would stay the same.

This is my personal preferred option as most likely to get moderate monarchist support; although 7 years would also be good. I have been persuaded over the years that Talossa's identity as a Kingdom is a valuable cultural tradition and point of attraction for new citizens. But this is not incompatible with the principle of periodic election.

This minimalist option for an elected Head of State would then have to discuss:
- how is a new King chosen? Again, the "minimalist" option would simply be by Organic Law reform process (which is I believe how John I Lupúl was chosen), but I think we can do better than that.
- what are the qualifications to become King of Talossa? Length of citizenship?
- can a King serve more than one term, consecutive or otherwise?

All this would have to be very careful to make sure that the role of King does not become an object of partisan competition.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

On the subject of Cézembre:

1) when Australia was debating becoming a republic, there was debate on what would happen if individual States insisted on remaining monarchic.
2) what happens if Cézembre pledges allegiance to a different King than that chosen by the nation as a whole?
3) would the Sénéchal of Cézembre be pledging eternal allegiance to John I, even if John I were removed by Organic Law amendment without bringing in the "limited term" - i.e. if he were replaced by another Monarch for Life?

[Iac Marscheir]

While used in a different context, as recently as 22 January 2021 France TV has used the term Queendom https://www.france.tv/slash/queendom/

"Queendom" is a term that appears to exist solely in English, with the exception of an outdated French term "reinaume" for which there is not a way to make a Talossan equivalent.

Hypothetically, but not realistically or desirably, "Queendom of Talossa" would be something like Rexheiçăpäts Talossan. However, Talossan nouns don't work like that.