Quote from: Caleb Frenibuerg on March 23, 2022, 06:08:15 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on March 23, 2022, 05:56:43 PM
Thanks very much for your enthusiasm, although I must say that anyone who finds financial administration "fascinating" is somewhat suspect :D

The Minister of Finance has, I believe, already offered the position to someone else - but if that falls through, we'll let you know and we can discuss things further.

I meant the whole Talossa thing.
I apologize.

Dude, seriously, you don't need to apologize for wanting to do stuff. We need more people joining and willing to jump in right away, tbh. Hopefully you and I are the first of a new wave.

Quote from: Caleb Frenibuerg on March 22, 2022, 10:12:09 PMI'm thinking the bunch of letters and numbers on the bottom could be a bit smaller. Maybe so it only takes up 1/4 of the card.

I would agree, but if we're trying to go with the actual standards here -- which was Danihel's idea and I think he deserves credit there, it's a grült idea -- this is the size they're supposed to be.

Quote from: Danihel Txechescu on March 23, 2022, 12:26:03 AMI think a less blocky font would fit better here, and seems to be more often used in documents of this kind.

I can work with that. I have a few in mind, though not all of them have italic character sets for the English captions, so I'll see what I can do.

QuotePlease see the Appendix A to part 5. It lists F / F for English/French, even though the same initials would be used in both M and F.

That is weird, but a good observation. I guess I'll leave it up to the decision of the room.

QuoteI've got to say: I'm absolutely delighted to see that we're discussing standards! Whatever the outcome, this is a whole new level of work!

You and me both! Of course, I'm an engineer, so this sort of thing is...all too familiar, haha.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on March 22, 2022, 06:51:14 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on March 22, 2022, 06:35:10 PM
...And AD would know, given that he has the only incorporation under Talossan law to date, if I'm not mistaken :P

How did you even know that?

I'm a wiki-binger

I read my history.  ;)

Quote from: Danihel Txechescu on March 22, 2022, 06:57:37 PMI don't particularly see a strong case of a check digit there, and feel that the last (name?) initial should definitely not be at the beginning or be there at all. I like the series (version/edition) at the beginning or in both the beginning and end:
* issuance series + citizen + year + serial, such as A05512200 or 05512200,
* issuance series + year + citizen + serial, such as A22055100 or 22055100.

In any case, I'm not married to any format. I'm just thinking that it needs to be easily tracked by the government (in a spreadsheet/database) and relatively straight-forward to generate.

Fair enough! Sort of thing we can hammer out as the design progresses, no need to have it done immediately.

Quote

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on March 22, 2022, 01:10:22 AM
I actually thought the design for the back was pretty good as it was, although from my reading of ICAO 9303 the Machine Readable Zone is supposed to have a white background. I'll freely admit I could be misinterpreting that out of caution, though. (And as luck would have it, we do actually have the same check digit on the second line.) [...]

I thought so too initially, but then I saw a bunch of actual passports (like my own) and cards (like visas I've been issued) that have a non-blank background in the MRZ. That opens up *a huge* opportunity to space the overall design. I guess the requirement is for it to have sufficient contrast.

That does definitely open up some pathways for us. Let me play around with it some more then. We'll need to keep the "mostly transparent layers" going on, for reasons of contrast, but we have more options.

QuoteNow, you're the one with the keen eye on design and you've probably seen my preference, but I'm not in love with the font for the captions on the front.

That's far overselling me, but I appreciate it. ;D  Is there something specific about the font you don't like? I'm always open to changes, maybe if I know what seems off about it I can find a better option more easily.

QuoteMaybe the two elements of Zone I can coexist at the same baseline level since they are of differing colors (might be a little tight).

It will definitely be tight, but I can at least double-check to see if there isn't a way to make it work.

QuoteI still believe that there should be both the Talossan/English captions for Sex, even when it's unspecified.

The Document number field is missing its Talossan translation.

See below

QuoteAll in all, I think it's brilliant.

Thank you!

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial on March 22, 2022, 07:08:47 PM
Two things:

@Mic'haglh Autófil  "Númerul dal Documenteu" is grammatically incorrect. "Documenteu" is masculine, so it would be "Númerul del Documenteu", but instead I'd suggest "Númeul da Documenteu" since it fits the style of the other labels, or its abbreviated form "N:reu da Doc." (yes, the abbreviated form of númerul is n:reu, don't ask me why.)

Quote from: Danihel Txechescu on March 22, 2022, 06:57:37 PM
I still believe that there should be both the Talossan/English captions for Sex, even when it's unspecified.

If you mean that the sex should be listed in both Talossan and English, then linguistically there'd be no need for it. The Talossan and English words (maschcel ~ male, femnel ~ female) happen to have the same first letters, so listing it once would be sufficient. I havent read ICAO 9303 part 3 myself though, so maybe it's still necessary?

Regarding point one: thank you for the correction! No better way to have a crash course in a language, I suppose  :P
On top of that, using the abbreviated form will permit me to put the English translation, since as it stands there isn't really enough space.

Regarding point two: ICAO 9303-5 (relevant for ID-1 size documents -- like these) reads:

As such, translation into English would yield the exact same initial, so we should really only use one.

...And AD would know, given that he has the only incorporation under Talossan law to date, if I'm not mistaken :P

Just bumping this thread to see what the next steps are, in order to prevent our requester from having to wait much longer.

If we could have some sort of Talossan louis digital wallet, this would be way easier, but I feel like micronational cryptocurrency is just too far down the rabbit hole of Internet Shenanigans (TM)  ;D

After integrating much of the feedback -- as well as doing my best to make these ISO- and ICAO-compliant, I submit the following:


Please ignore that I look thoroughly pissed off in my passport photo LMAO

Dates updated to the correct DD.MM.YYYY format, but including the Talossan year.

Document number is [Last Initial][4-digit Citizen #][Year of issue][Check digit][Version/edition, starting at A]. Check digit is a wee bit simpler than its ICAO counterpart: take the value of each non-check digit (or 1-26 if it's a letter), including the edition, sum each of them, square that, and sum up the value of those digits. If over 26, take each of the digits of that sum and sum those, at which point you really should be under 26. Assign a letter based on the value gotten.

As an example, mine is A055122-A. A = 1. 1+0+5+5+1+2+2+1=17. 17^2=289. 2+8+9=19. The 19th letter of the alphabet is S.

I actually thought the design for the back was pretty good as it was, although from my reading of ICAO 9303 the Machine Readable Zone is supposed to have a white background. I'll freely admit I could be misinterpreting that out of caution, though. (And as luck would have it, we do actually have the same check digit on the second line.)

Arms shown here are for display / template purposes, and also for a chuckle.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on March 21, 2022, 02:18:31 PM
Don't try to console me after killing my dream of starting a Talossan Mafia supported by a sprawling gambling empire.

Ah yes, Cosă Noastra  ;D

Bumping for visibility.

Also even if we can't gamble, I'll still drink with you, AD

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on March 18, 2022, 09:46:10 PMc) start your own Talossa, with blackjack, and hookers, and an OrgLaw written however you want it, preferably without a Royal veto

1) And this has already been done, no less
2) Didn't you point out gambling is now legal anyway under Talossan law after shaking off the legal Cheesehead Yoke?
3) "In fact, forget the Talossa and the blackjack!"

Quote from: Açafat del Val on March 18, 2022, 10:18:10 AM
I have an idea!

   
• Remove the monarchy entirely, and replace it with an elected head of state, not unlike Ireland, Italy, or India? Note that the election may be indirect  ;)
• I see that the FreeDems abandoned this position in favor of compromise. I wonder what the @PdR thinks...

I mean, I would rather get something instead of nothing, but that doesn't mean you stop pushing for the thing you were initially fighting for, either.  ;)

QuoteBut maybe you meant some promises that are less contentious?

   
• Rewrite the OrgLaw and El Lexhatx, which are both in a terribly sorry state (if we cared about the rule of law, that is). I'm down
• Remove the monarchy. Yes.
• Make the Ziu unicameral and living. On board with unicameral, Living Cosas seem difficult to do on a regular basis though, given the nature of the Talossan diaspora
• Remove the monarchy.
• Expand Witt formally onto Discord, encourage transparent political participation, and discourage private forums. Hard yes.
• 
        
  • (Even though game theory says that violently bitter, toxic, and aggressive partisanship in Talossa is inevitable, I would like to think that we could benefit from some coordination towards a better outcome.)
  • (Honestly, does Talossa as a whole benefit when parties connive and conspire in closed forums? As a matter of law there is nothing to be done about it, because citizens have a general right to free association, but perhaps the Government could use its pulpit to change minds.)
• Remove the monarchy. Agreed
• Have a heraldry bonanza! Make some new flags. Make some coats of arms. Add some pizzazz to the website. Insert the "Am I a joke to you?" meme here
• Remove the monarchy.
• Liberalize the law, so that it is more informal and more accessible, and so that greater numbers of citizens may be effective pro se litigants in front of lay judges.
• Remove the monarchy. Sensing a pattern here
• Abolish provinces completely, or make them ceremonial, not unlike English counties.
• Remove the monarchy.
• Revamp the database, so that it is more accessible not only to its users but also its administrators (just ask the @Chancery).
• Remove the monarchy.

How's that for a place to begin brainstorming?  8)

Moving this here since it's a slightly more appropriate venue than the Senator's office thread.

Quote from: Açafat del Val on March 18, 2022, 01:46:43 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on March 18, 2022, 12:53:49 PM
Actually, I have drafted a constitution that merges the two extant provincial constitutions (as well as a second extra draft, on the feedback from S:reu Tzaracomprada, that takes the initial draft and makes it into a directorate). These drafts lift parts of both the Benitian and Florencian constitutions, sometimes word-for-word, sometimes not. If you would like, I can send you links for either or both.

Yes, please.

Gladly!

The "original" draft

The "directorate" draft

As both of these drafts note, they have appended to them the remnants of both provincial constitutions from which they were taken. These bits are included because I didn't want to just throw them out without determining (as a group) whether or not they have constitutional value. I didn't know if some of them were perhaps necessary to include in a constitution, keeping them perhaps for a regular law. Something for a group discussion, I think.

Quote

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on March 18, 2022, 12:53:49 PM
In a similar vein, the flag canton is specifically not the flag of Benito. I will admit it developed from a redesign I had in mind for Benito, but made some pretty obvious alterations when I started to develop the provincial merger idea further. The flag of the province on the whole is in the canton of all three prospective cantonal flags. It has nothing to with "Benito over Florencia".

I'll take that on the chin, too. If the canton doesn't represent dominion over Florencia, then fair's fair. I'll reiterate that it's still a beautiful design, though.

Again, I thank you. I know your opposition to the design isn't on aesthetic grounds.

QuoteA massive -snip-

I will agree this is probably more of an issue to bring before the Cort, but I will say I'm sorry it's been frustrating you.

Quote

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on March 18, 2022, 12:53:49 PM
If he's one of maybe two or three citizens of the province I can see regularly active, then no wonder he can basically do what he wants! There aren't enough people here with whom he can share the load, nor are there really enough to force him to do so. Fewer provinces, each with more citizens, leads to improved governance for each, instead of little one-man fiefs spread throughout the nation like what we currently have.

It's hard for me to give a shit remain active when every instance of my passions and interests were unequivocally, unashamedly, and viscously overturned by the end of 2020. I made contributions to Florencia specifically and Talossa generally, and I think that to date most or all of them have been undone, not because they were substantively bad or even improper, but because many Talossans don't want to run a nation – they want to run their own one-man fiefs ;)

It's funny, by the way, that those folks who cry about the FreeDems' failure to govern are the same folks who squash literally any ideas that weren't theirs. (I'm talking about the TNC.)

Similarly, I can understand why making a bunch of changes would be detrimental to your enthusiasm. I want to clarify that my point there wasn't about inactivity specifically on your part, just in general.

Quote

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on March 18, 2022, 12:53:49 PM
In the case of our provinces specifically: a shared history, and to a lesser extent proximity, are what make the pairing an obvious place to start, but the why is really more of a nationwide issue at this point.

And since you have argued in another thread for enlarging Florencia instead -- ok then, it's your turn to make a convincing argument.

Here's my argument: Get rid of all provinces, including Florencia. Until then, no mergers.

That would solve the issue of threadbare provincial activity, even if not in the manner I was proposing (or, I suppose, in an extreme version of the manner I was proposing ;D). The main issue there is needing to change how we do the Senäts, or perhaps abolishing it altogether. (Not that I'm opposed, I prefer a unicameral Ziu anyway.)

Quote from: Açafat del Val on March 18, 2022, 10:29:06 AM
@Mic'haglh Autófil, what software do you use for these designs? Do you use more than one?

I said elsewhere that I don't want to see the Florencia flag tarnished by a canton, but otherwise your designs are absolutely wonderfully brilliant. Even if you create art only when the inspiration hits you, I hope that your passion does not cease. Please continue to post and create and mix. Seeing this post has stirred me for the first time in a very long time to open Inkscape and doodle.

There is actually a program out there simply called FlagMaker. I found it on Reddit probably...eight years ago, give or take. I use version 1.7, 2.0 never worked properly on my computer.

For some of the fancier stuff I'll lay things out in FlagMaker and then export as an SVG to bring it up in Illustrator. Heraldry and the ID cards were just straight-up started in Illustrator.

And thank you! I know that your opposition to the flag is opposition to what it would represent, as opposed to anything personal. :)

Quote from: Iac Marscheir on March 18, 2022, 10:13:23 AMOff the top of my head, the only thing I'd change is "Däts da Talossanità" to "Däts da Veitaziun" and reversing the gradient of the flag lol. I appreciate that the Talossan headings come first. :D

Ah, I tried to have that in there as a little nod to Talossan culture for those in the know.

Quote from: Açafat del Val on March 18, 2022, 10:25:12 AMCharismatic profile photo there! ;)

May I ask generally what our intended goal of these IDs is, or what purpose they would serve? I like the idea, but unless we have a means to manifest them physically, mail them to citizens, and use them from time to time (not even often), I do not see a cause beyond vanity.

Vanity may be a good cause, to be clear. I wondered only if vanity were the only cause?

As citizens of a nation born as a vanity project, what greater cause could there be for Talossa than vanity? ;)

And in my defense, it beats the heck out of my actual license photo, in part due to the simple fact that Wisconsin prints them in grayscale...

Quote from: Danihel Txechescu on March 18, 2022, 11:26:17 AMI love the design!, and definitely the size of the picture is much better.

However, please pick up as much as possible from the previous iteration on your new design, since those elements were all taken from published standards:
* person must be facing the camera (ISO/IEC39794 part 5),
* dates must commence with day (ICAO 9303 part 3),
* sex must be indicated for the second language in italic font style (ICAO 9303 part 3),
* issuing state and type of document must go first at the top (ICAO 9303 part 5).

And two more things:
1) Looks like I made a mistake with the size of the captions, which ought to be 1.8 mm in height _at most_ (I did 1.8 for fields and 2.2 for captions), as per ICAO 9303 part 3. I see it happening here too.
2) My recommendation was to not use the citizen number as the document number, since more than one could be issued (as replacement, due to new requirements, etcetera). I encoded the citizen number in the document number as I wanted that bit to be there, and the latter is a mandatory element as per ICAO 9303 part 5.

I spent countless hours ensuring this was compliant with all those standards, and I believe the end result is 100% legal. If that's one thing worth pursuing, let's make sure we don't deviate too much from that.

This is all good to know! Admittedly I was mostly trying to get the overall design down at this point, but it is good to know the ISO standard I'm looking for (I had ISO-7810 already for the size, this is in compliance with that). You used a mix of ISO and ICAO, though?