Merging Mayhem

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

I'm not a governor, but I've also been thinking about province mergers:



Some people who are on the Unofficial Official Discord server may think this looks familiar, and yeah, I posted the same idea on there on 26 February 2019.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu Ac’hlerglünä da Lhiun]

What now?

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I really like Garibaldi. Is that a merger of Florencia and Benito?

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

I really like Garibaldi. Is that a merger of Florencia and Benito?

It is! You could think of it as a reunification, as Florenciă used to be a part of Benito (then Mussolini) province. I was originally planning to name it Grült-Benito i.e. Greater Benito but Lüc didn't like that idea and I'm trusting his expertise on this topic.

Now how likely these mergers are I can't say. I believe there was an attempt at unifying Vuode and M-M a few years back and that amounted to nothing, but that hasn't stopped anyone from wild speculating before.

[GV]

I really like Garibaldi. Is that a merger of Florencia and Benito?

It is! You could think of it as a reunification, as Florenciă used to be a part of Benito (then Mussolini) province. I was originally planning to name it Grült-Benito i.e. Greater Benito but Lüc didn't like that idea and I'm trusting his expertise on this topic.

Now how likely these mergers are I can't say. I believe there was an attempt at unifying Vuode and M-M a few years back and that amounted to nothing, but that hasn't stopped anyone from wild speculating before.

Do not forget the failed Fiova/Florencia merger.

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

I really like Garibaldi. Is that a merger of Florencia and Benito?

It is! You could think of it as a reunification, as Florenciă used to be a part of Benito (then Mussolini) province. I was originally planning to name it Grült-Benito i.e. Greater Benito but Lüc didn't like that idea and I'm trusting his expertise on this topic.

Now how likely these mergers are I can't say. I believe there was an attempt at unifying Vuode and M-M a few years back and that amounted to nothing, but that hasn't stopped anyone from wild speculating before.

I can only speak for myself here but I'm running for the Benitian Assembly on a platform that involves undoing the split between Benito and Florencia. I hadn't considered renaming the province, but a revamped provincial flag was intended to show that Florencia had rejoined us as equals with their own unique history.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I don't think CZ should be merged with any other province, but critical support for this map otherwise. Free Democrats 100% support provincial mergers and the Fiovan and Maricopan administrations are slowly but surely making plans.

It's worth nothing why the Fiova-Florencia movement failed. The King himself admitted to me that the fiery opposition to the merger he led was that he saw it as an attack on monarchist representation in the Senäts, given that Florencia is our "reddest state", as it were (neglecting of course that Fiova is the "bluest"). So much of the opposition to provincial mergers is led by calculations of Senäts representations, unrelated to questions of provincial governance or culture. This, I think, is very wrong.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Garibaldi. That is a provincial name to be proud of. @Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial did you mention you created a draft flag? If not then I would fly a Garibaldi Merger Movement flag.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Garibaldi. That is a provincial name to be proud of. @Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial did you mention you created a draft flag? If not then I would fly a Garibaldi Merger Movement flag.

I didn't design any flags, so feel free to make your own.

To be honest, I'm not sure why this ancient thread has suddenly become active again but I'm happy that people like my idea, I suppose!

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Garibaldi. That is a provincial name to be proud of. @Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial did you mention you created a draft flag? If not then I would fly a Garibaldi Merger Movement flag.

I didn't design any flags, so feel free to make your own.

To be honest, I'm not sure why this ancient thread has suddenly become active again but I'm happy that people like my idea, I suppose!

It was me. I look at the list of online users and most of the time it is guests. There was a guest viewing this thread which was not familiar to me. I visited it and was intrigued.

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

Garibaldi. That is a provincial name to be proud of. @Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial did you mention you created a draft flag? If not then I would fly a Garibaldi Merger Movement flag.

That was me.

Colors are laid out to cover their positions on the Talossan and Italian flags (green on top (RT)/hoist (IT), red on bottom (RT)/fly (IT), using the national flag's exact hues), in order to nod to the province's history without simply being an inescutcheon of the Italian tricolor. Over all, a navy blue inescutcheon bearing a gold fleur-de-lis, using the exact colors from the current Florencian flag.

I don't think CZ should be merged with any other province, but critical support for this map otherwise. Free Democrats 100% support provincial mergers and the Fiovan and Maricopan administrations are slowly but surely making plans.

It's worth nothing why the Fiova-Florencia movement failed. The King himself admitted to me that the fiery opposition to the merger he led was that he saw it as an attack on monarchist representation in the Senäts, given that Florencia is our "reddest state", as it were (neglecting of course that Fiova is the "bluest"). So much of the opposition to provincial mergers is led by calculations of Senäts representations, unrelated to questions of provincial governance or culture. This, I think, is very wrong.

Could this perhaps be resolved by "grandfathering" Senators? Think of it this way: Neither Benito's nor Florencia's Senator is removed from office until their original term was up. Yes, this would mean that -- assuming the merger happens during the 57th Cosa -- for a partial Cosa term, Garibaldi would have two Senators. The "balance of power" in the Senate is not (immediately) changed. However, when elections for the 58th Cosa come up, Garibaldi would simply not elect a Senator. The Benitian senator term would end, and then the Florencian senator would be the sole senator from the new province, and Garibaldi would take the place of Florencia in the Senate election cycle.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

Could this perhaps be resolved by "grandfathering" Senators? Think of it this way: Neither Benito's nor Florencia's Senator is removed from office until their original term was up. Yes, this would mean that -- assuming the merger happens during the 57th Cosa -- for a partial Cosa term, Garibaldi would have two Senators. The "balance of power" in the Senate is not (immediately) changed. However, when elections for the 58th Cosa come up, Garibaldi would simply not elect a Senator. The Benitian senator term would end, and then the Florencian senator would be the sole senator from the new province, and Garibaldi would take the place of Florencia in the Senate election cycle.

This would have the unfortunate consequence of leaving formerly Benitian voters represented by a Senator they didn't elect. Maybe the short time period makes that concern not very important though.

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

Could this perhaps be resolved by "grandfathering" Senators? Think of it this way: Neither Benito's nor Florencia's Senator is removed from office until their original term was up. Yes, this would mean that -- assuming the merger happens during the 57th Cosa -- for a partial Cosa term, Garibaldi would have two Senators. The "balance of power" in the Senate is not (immediately) changed. However, when elections for the 58th Cosa come up, Garibaldi would simply not elect a Senator. The Benitian senator term would end, and then the Florencian senator would be the sole senator from the new province, and Garibaldi would take the place of Florencia in the Senate election cycle.

This would have the unfortunate consequence of leaving formerly Benitian voters represented by a Senator they didn't elect. Maybe the short time period makes that concern not very important though.

Obviously I'm only speaking for myself, but I don't think one term is a huge bother.

The alternative would be to have Garibaldi take Benito's place in the Senate election cycle, which means the entire province would vote on a Senator during Cosa Election 58. But if we let the Florencian senator serve out their term, that means we would have a province with two senators for a partial term (whatever remains of 57 after the merger takes effect) as well as a full term (58).

[King Txec]

Could this perhaps be resolved by "grandfathering" Senators? Think of it this way: Neither Benito's nor Florencia's Senator is removed from office until their original term was up. Yes, this would mean that -- assuming the merger happens during the 57th Cosa -- for a partial Cosa term, Garibaldi would have two Senators. The "balance of power" in the Senate is not (immediately) changed. However, when elections for the 58th Cosa come up, Garibaldi would simply not elect a Senator. The Benitian senator term would end, and then the Florencian senator would be the sole senator from the new province, and Garibaldi would take the place of Florencia in the Senate election cycle.

This would have the unfortunate consequence of leaving formerly Benitian voters represented by a Senator they didn't elect. Maybe the short time period makes that concern not very important though.

I'd have to check, but I also think that would involve a change to the OrgLaw also. If that's the case, a referendum would be required.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Garibaldi. That is a provincial name to be proud of. @Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial did you mention you created a draft flag? If not then I would fly a Garibaldi Merger Movement flag.

That was me.

Colors are laid out to cover their positions on the Talossan and Italian flags (green on top (RT)/hoist (IT), red on bottom (RT)/fly (IT), using the national flag's exact hues), in order to nod to the province's history without simply being an inescutcheon of the Italian tricolor. Over all, a navy blue inescutcheon bearing a gold fleur-de-lis, using the exact colors from the current Florencian flag.

I don't think CZ should be merged with any other province, but critical support for this map otherwise. Free Democrats 100% support provincial mergers and the Fiovan and Maricopan administrations are slowly but surely making plans.

It's worth nothing why the Fiova-Florencia movement failed. The King himself admitted to me that the fiery opposition to the merger he led was that he saw it as an attack on monarchist representation in the Senäts, given that Florencia is our "reddest state", as it were (neglecting of course that Fiova is the "bluest"). So much of the opposition to provincial mergers is led by calculations of Senäts representations, unrelated to questions of provincial governance or culture. This, I think, is very wrong.

Could this perhaps be resolved by "grandfathering" Senators? Think of it this way: Neither Benito's nor Florencia's Senator is removed from office until their original term was up. Yes, this would mean that -- assuming the merger happens during the 57th Cosa -- for a partial Cosa term, Garibaldi would have two Senators. The "balance of power" in the Senate is not (immediately) changed. However, when elections for the 58th Cosa come up, Garibaldi would simply not elect a Senator. The Benitian senator term would end, and then the Florencian senator would be the sole senator from the new province, and Garibaldi would take the place of Florencia in the Senate election cycle.

That is an awesome flag

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

Could this perhaps be resolved by "grandfathering" Senators? Think of it this way: Neither Benito's nor Florencia's Senator is removed from office until their original term was up. Yes, this would mean that -- assuming the merger happens during the 57th Cosa -- for a partial Cosa term, Garibaldi would have two Senators. The "balance of power" in the Senate is not (immediately) changed. However, when elections for the 58th Cosa come up, Garibaldi would simply not elect a Senator. The Benitian senator term would end, and then the Florencian senator would be the sole senator from the new province, and Garibaldi would take the place of Florencia in the Senate election cycle.

This would have the unfortunate consequence of leaving formerly Benitian voters represented by a Senator they didn't elect. Maybe the short time period makes that concern not very important though.

I'd have to check, but I also think that would involve a change to the OrgLaw also. If that's the case, a referendum would be required.

Might be easy to solve the issue by inserting a Section 12 to Org.III

"Any provinces formed by merger shall be represented by all Senators of the pre-merger provinces in question until the expiration of a term of any of the same. At that time, the citizens of the new province shall select a Senator to represent them, and any remaining pre-merger Senators shall finish the term to which they were elected without being replaced upon the expiration of their respective terms."

[Baroness Litz Cjantscheir, UrN-GC]

Could this perhaps be resolved by "grandfathering" Senators? Think of it this way: Neither Benito's nor Florencia's Senator is removed from office until their original term was up. Yes, this would mean that -- assuming the merger happens during the 57th Cosa -- for a partial Cosa term, Garibaldi would have two Senators. The "balance of power" in the Senate is not (immediately) changed. However, when elections for the 58th Cosa come up, Garibaldi would simply not elect a Senator. The Benitian senator term would end, and then the Florencian senator would be the sole senator from the new province, and Garibaldi would take the place of Florencia in the Senate election cycle.

This would have the unfortunate consequence of leaving formerly Benitian voters represented by a Senator they didn't elect. Maybe the short time period makes that concern not very important though.

I'd have to check, but I also think that would involve a change to the OrgLaw also. If that's the case, a referendum would be required.

Might be easy to solve the issue by inserting a Section 12 to Org.III

"Any provinces formed by merger shall be represented by all Senators of the pre-merger provinces in question until the expiration of a term of any of the same. At that time, the citizens of the new province shall select a Senator to represent them, and any remaining pre-merger Senators shall finish the term to which they were elected without being replaced upon the expiration of their respective terms."

This would cause issues with 2017 Org III Sec 1 and the principle of all provinces being equal and having one Senator/one vote each. In effect, the "balance of power" in the Upper House will change. Along with the principle of all provinces having one voice/one vote each and being equally represented going out the window, if we find that one province would be "more equal" (albeit for a limited time) than the others.

Simply put, if a province ceases to exist, so too does its Senate representation. Senators represent and vote on behalf of provinces - not citizens (this is what the lower house represents). It risks fundamentally undermining the Organic construction of the Senate and the balance of power between provinces if organically "non-existent" provinces continue to have a vote in the Senate.

The safest route would be for both Senators to resign and the new province elects a new Senator in line with the 2017 OrgLaw. If this upsets a percentage of the population of the province whose Senator of choice didn't get elected - tough, that's democracy.

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

Could this perhaps be resolved by "grandfathering" Senators? Think of it this way: Neither Benito's nor Florencia's Senator is removed from office until their original term was up. Yes, this would mean that -- assuming the merger happens during the 57th Cosa -- for a partial Cosa term, Garibaldi would have two Senators. The "balance of power" in the Senate is not (immediately) changed. However, when elections for the 58th Cosa come up, Garibaldi would simply not elect a Senator. The Benitian senator term would end, and then the Florencian senator would be the sole senator from the new province, and Garibaldi would take the place of Florencia in the Senate election cycle.

This would have the unfortunate consequence of leaving formerly Benitian voters represented by a Senator they didn't elect. Maybe the short time period makes that concern not very important though.

I'd have to check, but I also think that would involve a change to the OrgLaw also. If that's the case, a referendum would be required.

Might be easy to solve the issue by inserting a Section 12 to Org.III

"Any provinces formed by merger shall be represented by all Senators of the pre-merger provinces in question until the expiration of a term of any of the same. At that time, the citizens of the new province shall select a Senator to represent them, and any remaining pre-merger Senators shall finish the term to which they were elected without being replaced upon the expiration of their respective terms."

This would cause issues with 2017 Org III Sec 1 and the principle of all provinces being equal and having one Senator/one vote each. In effect, the "balance of power" in the Upper House will change. Along with the principle of all provinces having one voice/one vote each and being equally represented going out the window, if we find that one province would be "more equal" (albeit for a limited time) than the others.

Simply put, if a province ceases to exist, so too does its Senate representation. Senators represent and vote on behalf of provinces - not citizens (this is what the lower house represents). It risks fundamentally undermining the Organic construction of the Senate and the balance of power between provinces if organically "non-existent" provinces continue to have a vote in the Senate.

The safest route would be for both Senators to resign and the new province elects a new Senator in line with the 2017 OrgLaw. If this upsets a percentage of the population of the province whose Senator of choice didn't get elected - tough, that's democracy.

I'm not opposed to just starting from scratch, I was trying to suggest ways to get around the apparent political concerns of doing such a thing in the Senate. Electing a new Senator from scratch appears to be one of he things that has caused mergers to get hung up before, from what I'm seeing.

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

Had a little fun with things and decided to use hybrids of their respective predecessor province pairs to do mockup flags for Litoral (MM+VD), Manáweg (FI+MA), and Sentriun (CZ+KA), respectively:

   

Manáweg's vertical cross element is obviously too thin, but these are just me goofing around and making rough drafts, because...I like flags, and I can. shrug

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Really love the one for Manáweg