Talossan Empathy Network - Mental Health Support Group

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

You are very skilled at saying nothing in many words.

Unfortunately Ian, this negated everything that came after it.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

You are very skilled at saying nothing in many words.

Unfortunately Ian, this negated everything that came after it.

Come on. That was a mild poke. If I had this standard, I could be blissfully ignorant of everything the Opposition has said so far this term.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I've dealt with (or in some cases completely avoided) mental health issues my whole life. Depression, addiction and Gender Identity Disorder are things I struggle with. Most of the time it's manageable, other times it's a living hell.

We all struggle with something and it's nice to have someone to talk to, even when we think we don't want someone by our side.

I think this could be really beneficial to Talossans who are struggling. I'll help out in whatever way I can.

@Audrada Roibeardet thank you for sharing your struggle here. For me, it has been Depression, Anxiety, and OCD. With OCD being the primary struggle every day. OCD is difficult because many people will boil it down to being high-strung or mildly eccentric. When it can be disempowering and embarrassing. It can also be the cause of some shame especially when family notice it and express helplessness in their desire to help.

Also, a quick note for anyone here, I can be an oversharer because I tend to believe that this kind of openness is an antidote to stigma.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Again, thank you for your courteous words below. I accept your explanation and sorry for misinterpreting. In that situation I was dumbfounded by what seemed to be real anger and resentment coming from someone else whom I considered a friend.

The problem I see is that Talossa has a long, long, very long history of being an extremely toxic environment full of bullying and abuse. During the last period of King Robert I's rule you would actually call it a cult. And in a way, that is still with us. I admire a concern for people's mental health, but without a wider discussion of how mental ill health is being caused by our swamp-like political climate and ways of dealing with each other, this will make about as much difference as raking the leaves over a toxic waste dump.

I think the problem is that you can never tell what someone's "triggers" might be. But when people are political opponents - or just don't like each other - but are stuck in a situation together over years, they learn what upsets people and how to get a gratifying emotional reaction from them. Like an old married couple, you know the idea? Take my case.  You won't be surprised to hear that depression and anxiety are constant companions for me, as well. I wouldn't precisely describe myself as OCD, but because of my abusive upbringing I do recognize that I have problems with perfectionism, and hypervigilance when it comes to threats to my sense of self.

Now: there is a certain Talossan, well known to both of us, who has a pattern of behaviour over more than a decade by calling me a liar, a cheat, corrupt, while himself telling what I consider to be outright lies about me, my motivations, and my principles. Because of my own abusive upbringing, that kind of language triggers panic reactions in me, and I'm trying to train myself out of just turning a firehose of rage back in response. I've had to misuse prescription medication to be able to sleep in some of these situations - I've had to just walk away from Talossa on other situations, and it looks like I'll have to do that again. Now: how would a mental health empathy group deal with that? Would it tell me: suck it up, you deserve what you get? Or would it tell me to just leave the country if I can't handle it? What could it actually do about a situation in Talossa which ruins my mental health?

But on the other side, there is certainly a problem with people being so thin-skinned that they can't handle honest criticism or even mild joking.Do you see the real problem I'm getting at here? That on one hand we have to be able to take our lumps; but on the other hand  actual abuse, slander, and deliberately "pressing people's buttons" have become standard weapons of political struggle. I can't imagine any mental health or empathy will help as long as we EITHER (a) don't know how much we're hurting people; (b) know we're hurting people, and we do it anyway because "they deserve it/it's funny/it'll win my political party support".

I want you to find one of the copies of KR1's Ár Päts on the Wiki and read what it says about me in particular. Imagine me putting up with that, and still coming back to Talossa. Nothing I've had in the years since has been worse - but it is poison. I am trying to get my point across without turning it into another political headbutting session. I hope you get my point.

@Miestră Schivă, UrN it is almost like we have already started now. I am not going to give up.  :)
You asked me to be willing to let down my emotional defenses. I am now asking you to do the same.
Your feelings on this are valid and I respect them.
And I apologize if that post led you to doubt my sincerity and commitment to the rebuilding of trust.
Now to explain but not excuse as I believe a deepened mutual understanding is vital as we move forward.
My post on the Discord channel was to laugh because I was really tickled at the meme of Jeb Bush and the "please clap" reference (Honestly I am still laughing at that meme right now) and also the criticism of a change in government policy. I was not aware of that so it came as a surprise to me. But it had more to do with his deft meme usage and reference to a relatively obscure but memorable moment in recent American election campaigns.

Miestra, when I first saw your post I instantly assumed you were just coming up with a reason to not do something you were already skeptical of. But then I stopped, took some breaths, and tried to imagine and then remembered you as a mother of two dandelions, as a musician, as a speaker of lots of languages, as a New Zealander/Aotearoa (one of my favorite countries on the planet), and as a Talossan. After doing so, it became easier to think more of your feelings than my first reaction. I hope that my explanation and apology will keep us on the path to greater trust. And I hope you will start to think of me as more than whatever I exist as in your mind now.

[King Txec]

I think that sometimes we forget that on the other side of the screen are real people with real lives, real trauma, real unresolved personal pain, etc.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I think that sometimes we forget that on the other side of the screen are real people with real lives, real trauma, real unresolved personal pain, etc.

The is so true here in Talossa and in so many other places online. My motto in my profile is from a famous manifesto written by Bertrand Russell and Albert Einstein and it says "Remember your humanity and forget the rest." With respect interactions online perhaps  it should read Remember THEIR humanity and forget the rest.

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

I appreciate Miestra and Breneir responses and I believe both of them are talking without a mask that they usually wear when they speak to each other. I find that refreshing.

I believe that is a the second time I've seen a real exchange of opposing ideas in a polite manner in my 70 days in here.

I understand being opponents for many years has a big impact on how you perceive someone else's words but I believe that doesn't give you the right to deliberately push people's buttons and call it "mild poke" while they're trying to achieve something good. Also, saying that you won't participate because "thank god" "you have friends and family" is something wild to say (I mean I feel like that sometimes but sometimes I don't.). I also understand we sometimes forget there's real people behind the screen as the Secretary said. I amsorry for every time I did that.

I see this thread as a try to cool down a few degrees the political temperature in Talossa. I will always welcome and encourage and try to help with that. Others too, I know.

As the "LMAO" situation, that reminded me of an exercise I made two of my students do where they almost fought each other while doing a video in front of the actors.
I made them do a list of all the things they have against the other, every time the other made them hurt and things they cannot forgive about each other. I gave them three days and thigs were amazing because they both got a list of like 3-4 things and half of them were misunderstadings. Both of them apologized and agreed to disagree in the other one. I believe that was one of the moments that I will forever treasure in my heart as a teacher. One of them flunked the class two months later lol, tho but that's not the point.
Maybe something like that can help cooling Talossa down because we all have lives and we all have things to do outside of here and we sure as hell don't have time to hold grudges, or at least we should aim to not do that.

Try to literally write down every grudge you hold against someone. That thing really helps when it is written down.

Maybe showing it to the other person (when both are cooled down and agreed to be polite) can have a tremendous impact.


That unfortunately is not related to the Mental Health Support Group but I think its aim is the same: to feel better and have better relationships with each other.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

I understand being opponents for many years has a big impact on how you perceive someone else's words but I believe that doesn't give you the right to deliberately push people's buttons and call it "mild poke" while they're trying to achieve something good. Also, saying that you won't participate because "thank god" "you have friends and family" is something wild to say (I mean I feel like that sometimes but sometimes I don't.). I also understand we sometimes forget there's real people behind the screen as the Secretary said. I amsorry for every time I did that.

I really don't appreciate this for two reasons:

1. When I criticized Brenier, I was not doing it just to push his buttons. I was pinpointing a real issue with this group that needed to be addressed. You can agree with me or not, or think I should have been nicer, but I stand by what I said. I sincerely believe Breneir can only "achieve something good" with this group if he considers my critique.

2. Breneir was point-blank asking me if I would join; saying no without explanation would have been unsatisfactory. I decided to take the opportunity to make a sincere expression of gratitude; apparently you are not inclined to give me the same grace you are giving others in this discussion. Certainly I am not inclined to share anything more.

Anyhow, this discussion is leading me to one of two conclusions, neither of which are good:
1. The TNC and the FreeDems both sling mud, but no one else notices when the TNC does it because they camouflage it.
2. The FreeDems really are the only party that sling mud, in which case I should leave Talossa immediately because I am not doing myself nor anyone else any favors.

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

Telling people that you won't join a Mental Health Support Group because thank god you have friends implies people needing Mental Health Support don't have friends. Perhaps I'm assuming wrong and if that's the case I understand.

When people communicate through text it's always difficult to get the full picture. Our past experiencies interfere and that's why I took it that way, maybe. And that's why Talossa is here. And that's why you only get bad conclusions, probably.

I try to not look at things through the TNCvsFreeDems lens. Perhaps you are projecting something in my comments? I honestly appreciated Miestra and the Secretary's comments.

I know all comments are tied to interpretation by the reader. I considered myself a neutral bystander reacting to every comment by itself, not taking sides.

Also, what an odd conclusions. I  was going to finish this post with "I shall abstain from commenting any more if it really makes you consider you staying in the very country you run, PM" but I know you are talking from a TNC-FreeDems pov and that's not really a comment to take seriously.  Or at least that's why I tell myself haha I mean I can't listen to a read word.

Also I believe I'm exposing myself in this post and exposed myself in the last one. I believe that is good. It means I'm willing to trust. I hope you can truts someone outside of your party later, truly. (And I know it won't be easy because... well, lots of stuff).

I believe that a future better than the present is achievable.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

Telling people that you won't join a Mental Health Support Group because thank god you have friends implies people needing Mental Health Support don't have friends. Perhaps I'm assuming wrong and if that's the case I understand.

I was acknowledging that many people have family and friends who are not of any support to them. I am very grateful not to be in that position.

I try to not look at things through the TNCvsFreeDems lens. Perhaps you are projecting something in my comments? I honestly appreciated Miestra and the Secretary's comments.

I know all comments are tied to interpretation by the reader. I considered myself a neutral bystander reacting to every comment by itself, not taking sides.

Also, what an odd conclusions. I  was going to finish this post with "I shall abstain from commenting any more if it really makes you consider you staying in the very country you run, PM" but I know you are talking from a TNC-FreeDems pov and that's not really a comment to take seriously.  Or at least that's why I tell myself haha I mean I can't listen to a read word.

I take you at your word that you believe you are a neutral observer. However, the fact that it always seems you are calling out particular people, but not others, for pushing people's buttons, when I think everyone is doing it, means one of two things:
1. You are not actually as neutral as you think you are
2. I am just imagining that other people are trying to push my buttons, but I am actually the only one pushing other people's buttons, in which case I should at least withdraw from politics and make everyone happier.

Also I believe I'm exposing myself in this post and exposed myself in the last one. I believe that is good. It means I'm willing to trust. I hope you can truts someone outside of your party later, truly. (And I know it won't be easy because... well, lots of stuff).

It may surprise you to learn that Dame Miestra and I were political opponents for most of the past seven years; I only joined the FreeDems last year. However, my relationship with her was (usually) nothing but cordial and constructive during that time. I assure you I am capable of trusting people from outside my party.

It may also surprise you that Breneir and I were in the same party on multiple occasions, first in the Moderate Radical Party of Talossa between 2015-2016, and then the League of Centre Conservatives from 2020-2021. Up until last year I always got along with him (and Baron Alexandreu, for that matter) just fine. I hope we can get back to that.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I appreciate Miestra and Breneir responses and I believe both of them are talking without a mask that they usually wear when they speak to each other. I find that refreshing.

Problem is - and Ian P is pointing this out as well - that your 70 days in Talossa is perhaps not giving you sufficient background to interpret what you're seeing. I'm trying my best to be honest/cordial with Breneir - and to his credit he appears to be reciprocating - but as Ian P has rightly pointed out, there is stuff that goes back years, what a Scientologist would call "breakdowns in Affinity, Reality and Communication". And my communication with Breneir in this thread hasn't even scraped the surface of that.

There was something that happened, whereby Breneir and Ian P turned from party colleagues to firm antagonists. To my mind, that's never even been sufficiently explained, let alone sufficiently dealt with, and it is the underlying reason why our two major parties currently have such an antagonistic relationship. Do you know what that thing was? If not, perhaps you should find out before commenting.

But: it goes the other way as well. Ian P is not an outlier in being a former political opponent of mine who is now an ally. The SoS, now our Party President, was an opponent, Senator Grischün was an opponent, and Justice V was quite a nasty opponent (man he was rude to me, lol). The short version of that story is that a lot of people who used to wholeheartedly defend the monarchy stopped doing so as the Monarch's active involvement in Talossa decreased.

The point of why I've been trying to delicately engage Breneir is that IMHO the basis for an "empathy network" has to be trust, and that trust can't exist in a situation of heightened partisanship. IMHO the only way to take down partisan heat is "truth and reconciliation" - that both sides have to admit they've done things that have hurt others. Ian P is criticising your "neutrality" as in fact suggesting that the nastiness in Talossa is only coming from one team. And if that were true, Ian P is correct - the only way that could be fixed is for that "team" (mine) to just go away and leave the good, decent people of the other team alone. But if instead the problem is a cycle of communication that has gone bad, then the only way to fix that is for both sides to own where we're making things worse. Does that make sense?

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

Telling people that you won't join a Mental Health Support Group because thank god you have friends implies people needing Mental Health Support don't have friends. Perhaps I'm assuming wrong and if that's the case I understand.

I was acknowledging that many people have family and friends who are not of any support to them. I am very grateful not to be in that position.

I try to not look at things through the TNCvsFreeDems lens. Perhaps you are projecting something in my comments? I honestly appreciated Miestra and the Secretary's comments.

I know all comments are tied to interpretation by the reader. I considered myself a neutral bystander reacting to every comment by itself, not taking sides.

Also, what an odd conclusions. I  was going to finish this post with "I shall abstain from commenting any more if it really makes you consider you staying in the very country you run, PM" but I know you are talking from a TNC-FreeDems pov and that's not really a comment to take seriously.  Or at least that's why I tell myself haha I mean I can't listen to a read word.

I take you at your word that you believe you are a neutral observer. However, the fact that it always seems you are calling out particular people, but not others, for pushing people's buttons, when I think everyone is doing it, means one of two things:
1. You are not actually as neutral as you think you are
2. I am just imagining that other people are trying to push my buttons, but I am actually the only one pushing other people's buttons, in which case I should at least withdraw from politics and make everyone happier.

Also I believe I'm exposing myself in this post and exposed myself in the last one. I believe that is good. It means I'm willing to trust. I hope you can truts someone outside of your party later, truly. (And I know it won't be easy because... well, lots of stuff).

It may surprise you to learn that Dame Miestra and I were political opponents for most of the past seven years; I only joined the FreeDems last year. However, my relationship with her was (usually) nothing but cordial and constructive during that time. I assure you I am capable of trusting people from outside my party.

It may also surprise you that Breneir and I were in the same party on multiple occasions, first in the Moderate Radical Party of Talossa between 2015-2016, and then the League of Centre Conservatives from 2020-2021. Up until last year I always got along with him (and Baron Alexandreu, for that matter) just fine. I hope we can get back to that.

I am surprised, yes.

I take it all back.

My bad.

Thank you for your contribution, Seneschal.

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

I appreciate Miestra and Breneir responses and I believe both of them are talking without a mask that they usually wear when they speak to each other. I find that refreshing.

Problem is - and Ian P is pointing this out as well - that your 70 days in Talossa is perhaps not giving you sufficient background to interpret what you're seeing. I'm trying my best to be honest/cordial with Breneir - and to his credit he appears to be reciprocating - but as Ian P has rightly pointed out, there is stuff that goes back years, what a Scientologist would call "breakdowns in Affinity, Reality and Communication". And my communication with Breneir in this thread hasn't even scraped the surface of that.

There was something that happened, whereby Breneir and Ian P turned from party colleagues to firm antagonists. To my mind, that's never even been sufficiently explained, let alone sufficiently dealt with, and it is the underlying reason why our two major parties currently have such an antagonistic relationship. Do you know what that thing was? If not, perhaps you should find out before commenting.

But: it goes the other way as well. Ian P is not an outlier in being a former political opponent of mine who is now an ally. The SoS, now our Party President, was an opponent, Senator Grischün was an opponent, and Justice V was quite a nasty opponent (man he was rude to me, lol). The short version of that story is that a lot of people who used to wholeheartedly defend the monarchy stopped doing so as the Monarch's active involvement in Talossa decreased.

The point of why I've been trying to delicately engage Breneir is that IMHO the basis for an "empathy network" has to be trust, and that trust can't exist in a situation of heightened partisanship. IMHO the only way to take down partisan heat is "truth and reconciliation" - that both sides have to admit they've done things that have hurt others. Ian P is criticising your "neutrality" as in fact suggesting that the nastiness in Talossa is only coming from one team. And if that were true, Ian P is correct - the only way that could be fixed is for that "team" (mine) to just go away and leave the good, decent people of the other team alone. But if instead the problem is a cycle of communication that has gone bad, then the only way to fix that is for both sides to own where we're making things worse. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense. I believed this thread was of a clear intention but that thing you mention taints literally everything in Talossan politics, I see. It didn't matter if the intentions of this thread was good, that something from the past will forever hunt the new things. I don't believe there will be a better time now haha. I'll see my way out.
Thank you Miestra for taking the time to give me context, I honestly appreciate it. :)

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

@Bråneu Excelsio  your contributions to this thread have been level-headed, empathetic, and helpful. And I hope you will continue to make them as you see fit. Your advice to me has helped to guide my responses. I will continue to "respond with love." :)

@Miestră Schivă, UrN What exactly do you need first from me in order to begin our trust-building journey?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

@Miestră Schivă, UrN What exactly do you need first from me in order to begin our trust-building journey?

Okay, you've asked me plain, and the best compliment I can pay you is to respond plainly.

Brenéir, the issue that I have - and it's certainly not one exclusive to you personally - is that, in my experience, you seem prone to hostile overreactions. Do you know the story of Sir Trotxa and the Killer Rabbit? Here it is:

This was during the National Schism, when Kingdom and Republic were not very friendly neighbours. Sir Trotxa da Betinéir of the Kingdom posted a picture of himself in a cardboard suit of armour from an activity with his Scout troop. Inxheneu Crova of the Republic made a joking reply and Photoshop: "Watch out for the Killer Rabbit!" based on that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. To those on the Republic side, this was a light-hearted jest as might be made among friends - as Ian Plätschisch might put it, a "mild poke". To Sir Trotxa and most on the Kingdom side, this was a deathly, killing insult, mocking something that was very important in Trotxa's life. We were even told that it had actually hurt Trotxa's Scouts, and their families (who showed them the photoshop, and why???).  Here's a sample of the drama.

Brenéir, the bad feeling between us - if I might say this - began with General Davinescu sending you a message which you interpreted as threatening and rude (and you had reason to feel that, admittedly. Txoteu's message was a blunder). You summarily pulled out of the 56th Cosa coalition. All the apologies that Txoteu made to you, and all my messages in which I begged you to reconsider, were simply ignored.

Now, you say that you were personally hurt by the legislative boycott. And that's a fair reaction. But before that we were hurt by what we saw as you just refusing to engage every time we asked what your suggestion was for monarchy reform. And before that, what we saw as an unnecessarily rude and personalised election campaign (also little things like, we congratulated the TNC after the election; you didn't congratulate us). And before that, turning against a proposal for monarchy reform that you yourself had supported in the election - and, I have to say it once again, never explaining why. So there is a whole history of "you offend us; we offend you"; but it goes back, as I see, to Txoteu's regrettable message and your reaction to it.

So there are two parts here. Firstly, I don't think A can feel emotionally safe around B, when A simply cannot predict if something they say or do will elicit not only an angry reaction from B, but an angry reaction which results in a collapse of communication, and resentment and conflict for maybe years after that. Secondly, there is a "cycle of conflict" problem. X feels they are justified in being hurtful to Y because Y was hurtful to X first. But then Y says something happened before that which made Y's behaviour justified. And so on and so on and so on. You end up in a South Africa/Northern Ireland situation.

In summary: I don't feel emotionally safe around you because I don't understand why we became enemies virtually overnight - or why you became a bitter opponent of a proposal we once worked together on. Because I don't understand the reasons for your reactions, I can't feel safe dealing with you because I don't know what I might do that might lead to further anger and hostility.

Does that make sense?