Budget and Financial Planning Bill for the 58th Cosa

[Üc R. Tärfă]

Would there be objection if we lodged a significant portion of our funds into something with a higher yield but which still doesn't represent significant speculation?  I was thinking here in terms of a bank certificate of deposit with a six-month term.

Depends: you have to provide the details of such an investment.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Well, I just gave you most of the major information about the idea. What further details do you want? I don't have a specific interest rate, but it's going to be higher than a savings account.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

I actually looked into doing that a couple years ago. I decided it wasn't worth the tax headache it would cause the Burgermeister.

[King Txec]

Remember the treasury is technically held by an individual, which means he or she might have tax liabilities.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

That makes sense. We're actually exploring the idea of getting an EIN or registering a 501c3, though. The new burgermeister volunteered and the Seneschal directed us to explore the idea.

@xpb , do you want to tell them what you told me about those possibilities?

[Üc R. Tärfă]

That makes sense. We're actually exploring the idea of getting an EIN or registering a 501c3, though. The new burgermeister volunteered and the Seneschal directed us to explore the idea.

@xpb , do you want to tell them what you told me about those possibilities?

Wasn't this already explored in the past?

and the Seneschal directed us to explore the idea.

When?

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

That makes sense. We're actually exploring the idea of getting an EIN or registering a 501c3, though. The new burgermeister volunteered and the Seneschal directed us to explore the idea.

@xpb , do you want to tell them what you told me about those possibilities?

Wasn't this already explored in the past?

and the Seneschal directed us to explore the idea.

When?

A few days ago.

[xpb]

That makes sense. We're actually exploring the idea of getting an EIN or registering a 501c3, though. The new burgermeister volunteered and the Seneschal directed us to explore the idea.

@xpb , do you want to tell them what you told me about those possibilities?

Wasn't this already explored in the past?

and the Seneschal directed us to explore the idea.

When?

I sit on the board of the a Community Foundation.  I manage a scholarship fund there honoring my father and grandfather, as well an Intellectual Competition Fund.  Both instances have funds on deposit that are a permanent endowment that generate income, as well as a current distribution account. 

Accounts there need to have a educational purpose, and Talossa could be proposed as a fund - as a long running virtual nation where there are political and administrative activities that provide a learning experience.  All accounts are overseen by a board, which I also sit upon, however there are many accounts that have their various managers that do not sit on the board and just operate under the organizational umbrella.  There is professional management of the portfolio, and there is a controller and accountant overseeing disbursements as well as tax filings.  The current president of the board is a lawyer.

There may also be similar entities within the Greater Talossan Ares with a similar scope and purpose - is anyone there involved with such an organization?

In some fashion, I believe it would be much better for the treasury not to be attached to any individual.

X Pol Briga
Burgermeister of Inland Revenue

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

If this is a roundabout way of creating an actual Talossan legal entity which can own investments/intellectual property, this is something I've wanted to see for ages but it always ended up in the "too hard" basket.

[xpb]

If this is a roundabout way of creating an actual Talossan legal entity which can own investments/intellectual property, this is something I've wanted to see for ages but it always ended up in the "too hard" basket.

Not sure about the IP for "Talossa" - I do know an IP lawyer.  My estimate to setup a TM for Talossa would be around $2000, with the https://www.uspto.gov/ but I would happily contribute $500 to that end.  Likely would need to create a 501cX as well as a holding unless it was held by some existing 501cX.  501c3 are charitable and have tax deductibility but are more challenging to establish.  Something like a 503c8 may apply https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/other-non-profits/fraternal-societies

[xpb]

Word Mark   TALOSSA
Goods and Services   (CANCELLED) IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, providing historical, cultural and political information about an organization in the nature of a fictional nation. FIRST USE: 19791226. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19850701
Standard Characters Claimed   
Mark Drawing Code   (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number   78401395
Filing Date   April 14, 2004
Current Basis   1A
Original Filing Basis   1B
Published for Opposition   March 1, 2005
Registration Number   2955054
Registration Date   May 24, 2005
Owner   (REGISTRANT) Madison, Robert B. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 8631 North Servite Drive Unit 118 Milwaukee WISCONSIN 53223
Type of Mark   SERVICE MARK
Register   PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator   DEAD
Cancellation Date   January 24, 2013

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

You can get an EIN for free, that's what you need to open a bank account in the organization's name.

I really don't think spending $2,000 on establishing a 401cX is worth it

[xpb]

You can get an EIN for free, that's what you need to open a bank account in the organization's name.

I really don't think spending $2,000 on establishing a 401cX is worth it

However then it needs to incorporate unless it is a LLC or Subchapter S which leads back to some individual being responsible.  If incorporated, it makes sends to be a 501c8 (not 3 that has higher thresholds to cross).  The cost I am referencing is for the Trademark (TM) work, the corporation would be less expensive.  If not pursuing TM then it also could just be a fund within an existing 501cX structure.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

Well that escalated pretty quickly... A $600 USD budget was under scrutiny and now I read figures even higher than the Treasury total!

Although this debate took place in the Budget thread, may I ask the Minister to confirm that this Bill will not be amended in any way to reflect this?

I do not understand much of what has been said insofar as reference is made to US legislation on the subject of which I know nothing. I would suggest moving this discussion to another thread.

That makes sense. We're actually exploring the idea of getting an EIN or registering a 501c3, though. The new burgermeister volunteered and the Seneschal directed us to explore the idea.

@xpb , do you want to tell them what you told me about those possibilities?

Wasn't this already explored in the past?

and the Seneschal directed us to explore the idea.

When?

A few days ago.

I'm a little concerned about this.

I hope that the government will, should this study have any follow up, which I think should be in the form of a 'White Paper', engage in a broad debate with citizens on this issue before even contemplating its transformation into a government proposal.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Well that escalated pretty quickly... A $600 USD budget was under scrutiny and now I read figures even higher than the Treasury total!

Although this debate took place in the Budget thread, may I ask the Minister to confirm that this Bill will not be amended in any way to reflect this?

I certainly do not intend to make any unannounced edits to the bill. As I have been doing, I will continue to make it known if there are any significant changes.

I hope that the government will, should this study have any follow up, which I think should be in the form of a 'White Paper', engage in a broad debate with citizens on this issue before even contemplating its transformation into a government proposal.

I'm not sure we can commit to any specific form. This goal is a bipartisan one, pursued by previous administrations in the past and only undone, I believe, because it was logistically difficult and perhaps not practical.

That said, I can't imagine we would do anything but continue to be transparent and seek feedback, just as we have been doing.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Previous governments only suggested declaring a Registered Agent under Wisconsin law, which would have cost less than $US100.

[xpb]

Previous governments only suggested declaring a Registered Agent under Wisconsin law, which would have cost less than $US100.

A registered agent is an appropriate idea.  That typically requires a corporate structure to be a registered agent for.  An EIN is indeed free, but requires a corporate structure to be assigned to.

The larger amounts being proposed were to claw back the previous registered trademark of Talossa, which has lain dormant since 2013.  Smaller amounts would be needed to incorporate (perhaps a couple hundred) but would need agreement as to structure.  The renewal would be $20 per year to file an annual report.

The entire purpose would be to remove individuals from banking or other accounts, and have officers of a corporation elected from time to time to oversee those accounts as part of operations.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Added to the bill:
"There was no financial report filed during the 57th Cosa, as confirmed with the Seneschal and Ministreu dal Finançù, of that term, and accordingly it will not be possible to provide a list of transactions.

The amount of current coinage and stamps in circulation and in reserve is currently unknown.  This information will be provided in a supplemental report to the Ziu."

I feel confident at this point that there is no existing previous financial report filed by the Government, and it's not any sort of oversight or just misplaced, having gotten word to that effect from the preceding administration.  For reasons out of our control, we have also not been able to obtain coin & stamps info.  In the interests of not embarrassing anyone, let me simply assure the Ziu that this information will be provided in a supplemental report at a later date.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

The Financial Report of the previous budget (which would have been on the 56th cosa). is nor a requisite for this Report: the Burgemeister doesn't need that to provide a list of transactions from the Kingdom account balances, and to link them to the appropriation part in the budget.

1.5.6.2. a detailed list of all changes in the account balances of the Royal Treasury since the last Report,

We can easily read that part as:

a detailed list of all changes in the account balances of the Royal Treasury since the 57th Budget.

1.5.6.3. a balance sheet which clearly lists all expenses linking them to the relative sheet items in the budget bills approved in the Cosa,

Again no need here for the financial report, just the previous budget and the account balances.

The 53rd and 54th Budgets had a different wording of the law, but the essential part is the same.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

The Financial Report of the previous budget (which would have been on the 56th cosa). is nor a requisite for this Report: the Burgemeister doesn't need that to provide a list of transactions from the Kingdom account balances, and to link them to the appropriation part in the budget.

1.5.6.2. a detailed list of all changes in the account balances of the Royal Treasury since the last Report,

We can easily read that part as:

a detailed list of all changes in the account balances of the Royal Treasury since the 57th Budget.

Well, I'm not sure it's valid to change the words to different ones, and then note that they would then mean something different. The law explicitly asks for changes since the last financial report, not the last budget.  But even if we did, no account balances were provided in the 57th budget.  And transactions have yet been confirmed, since no disbursement notices were filed.  I agree that this is a problem, and that the financial report and disbursement notices were legally required, but it's already been publicly discussed and I think it would be kinder not to drag this out.  Everyone makes mistakes, and there were extenuating circumstances.