Budget and Financial Planning Bill for the 58th Cosa

[Üc R. Tärfă]

þon. Ministreu,
don't try to deflect the argument: we're talking about producing this Report for this Budget. I wasn't MC during the last Budget, I am MC for this Budget and it is my job as member of HM Loyal Opposition to scrutinise your work, while ensuring that the Financial Report is duly attached to this Budget is your job as Ministreu dal Finançù.

The spirit of the law is clear: the purpose of the Report is to be the final balance of the previous term, and to present the list of operations that were carried out during the previous Cosa, with in addition an indication, in the case of expenditures, of the Budget item that appropriated the money (in order to clarify how much money authorized was actually spent). When I said to read "since the last Report" as "since the last Budget" I didn't say to change the law but to consider that statement correctly as the terminus a quo the law is referring to here, since the Report must be submitted together with the Budget, to include information on the Financial Report.

The law gives an obvious temporal indication rather than being prescriptive. To cling to a literal "since the last report" instead of a temporal indication as an impossibility to make the Report "you need this to do that", is to play with the law. The law doesn't say that you can't have a Report if none was delivered in the last term.

But even if it were as you claim, certainly for Lexh.C.1.5.6.3. there is not even that indication "since the last Report": therefore it cannot be an excuse.

Producing the Financial Report (excluding the part on stamps and coins for the reasons we all know and we all hope to resolve soon) is very simple: it only needs access to the banking and PayPal account statements, create a table with the data for the last term and simply add for the expenses the reference to the funds appopriated in the budget approved in the last Cosa.

There is no need to bring up the previous Government because it has nothing to do with this.

The question is: Does the Burgermeister have access to the accounts? If the answer is "yes", than that alone is enough to produce the Report.

If you need the budget for last Cosa (for Lexh.C.1.5.6.3) I can provide to you the link. I can also provide to you the receipt for one of the disbursement duly authorised by the Cosa: just follow the link to Witt on that page. That expense is the one appropriated on Part A section FINANCE of the Budget.

(I'd also argue that the PD in question can be interpeted as a "Notice of disbursment" in compliance with the 14-days required by 57RZ5 as it was issued by the Seneschal on the 23rd of July and the disbursment - the donation - was made 68 days later on the 29th of September. BTW: nowithstanding the lack of countersignature by the King, the disbursement was already authorised by 57RZ5 in compliance with Lexh.D.2.8.5, so the King assent wasn't needed per Lexh.D.2.8.6. The King as far as I can tell failed to countersign not 1 but 7 PDs in the last term, all the "observance days" PDs: 57PD3 57PD4 57PD5 57PD6 57PD7 57PD8 57PD9.)

:)

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I'm sorry, but I think we disagree on this.  There was no financial report, and the law states that I should list changes in account balance since the last report.  The financial report and the budget are not the same thing, even though they're delivered at the same time, and the former wasn't done.  And I cannot yet discern which expenditures were linked to which budget lines from the last budget, since no disbursement notices were filed.  It is true that money was authorized to be spent, but notice was never given when it was actually disbursed.

I intend to provide all of this information once I can be quite sure that I can verify that information and those links to the best of my ability, but that is not yet possible.  I'm not prepared to formally certify to the Ziu that everything was appropriated and disbursed as it should be, and I'm not going to make a false representation to that effect.

To make things more clear, I am going to separate the financial bill and the budget.  So this bill will just be the budget bill, and the financial report will be put in a separate report to the Ziu.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

And I cannot yet discern which expenditures were linked to which budget lines from the last budget, since no disbursement notices were filed.  It is true that money was authorized to be spent, but notice was never given when it was actually disbursed.

It is not your job. It's the Burgermeister's.

Lexh.C.1.5:

1.5. The Royal Treasury, headed by the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue. The function of the treasury is to:
1.5.1. collect all revenues due to the King,
1.5.2. maintain and report to the Finance Minister and the Government on the fiduciary health of the Kingdom, at least once in every two calendar months and whenever else requested
1.5.3. disburse from the treasury all funds legitimately appropriated by the Ziu,
1.5.4. keep a record of all changes in the account balances of the Royal Treasury.
1.5.5. audit the reported financial condition of His Majesty's investments at any time.
1.5.6. provide, upon request of the Minister of Finance and any other time stated in law, a Financial Report containing the following information:
1.5.6.1. the amount, location, liquidity, and availability of all funds held by or for the Royal Treasury,
1.5.6.2. a detailed list of all changes in the account balances of the Royal Treasury since the last Report,
1.5.6.3. a balance sheet which clearly lists all expenses linking them to the relative sheet items in the budget bills approved in the Cosa,
1.5.6.4. the total amount of louise and postal items in circulation;[104]

Again

I'm not prepared to formally certify to the Ziu that everything was appropriated and disbursed as it should be, and I'm not going to make a false representation to that effect.

That is not your job, but the Burgermeister's.

The question is simple as that. It is sufficient for the Burgermeister to have bank and paypal statements from, say, 1 July 2022 to 1 March 2023. And preparing the Financial Report is quite simple.

I do some balance statements every year even with totals of 5 zeros, I volunteer to prepare the Financial Report myself, I only need the balance statements.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I am the Ministreu dal Finançù, and the Burgermeister is my direct report.  If I am directed by the law to provide information to the Ziu, incorporating a report from a civil servant under my legal direction, then I am not going to provide that information until we can be sure it is accurate and can be verifiably linked to past expenditures as required by the law.  I am sure your enthusiasm would extend to holding me accountable for what I present to the Ziu, after all.

I asked the preceding Burgermeister for past information to fill in some of these holes, and he indicated to me he would prefer I ask his successor.  I think that is eminently reasonable since he was already doing quite the hardest job in the country.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

I am the Ministreu dal Finançù, and the Burgermeister is my direct report.  If I am directed by the law to provide information to the Ziu, incorporating a report from a civil servant under my legal direction,

The Burgermeister is not under your legal direction. He is responsible to you, but it is not under your legal direction except as required by law.

Lexh.C.2

With the exception of the Secretary of State and the Permanent Secretaries, every Office of the Royal Civil Service shall be assigned to a responsible Minister of the Government as named below, to report and consult concerning the conduct of their office as and when requested, necessary or useful. Officers are not subject to the direction of their responsible Minister except as required by Organic and statutory law. The Scribe of Abbavilla shall be responsible to the Attorney-General, the Royal Archivist to the Minister of Immigration, the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue to the Minister of Finance, and the President of the Royal Society and the Poet Laureate to the Minister of Culture.

And, as I quoted above, his duties are:

Lexh.C.1.5

1.5. The Royal Treasury, headed by the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue. The function of the treasury is to:
1.5.1. collect all revenues due to the King,
1.5.2. maintain and report to the Finance Minister and the Government on the fiduciary health of the Kingdom, at least once in every two calendar months and whenever else requested
1.5.3. disburse from the treasury all funds legitimately appropriated by the Ziu,
1.5.4. keep a record of all changes in the account balances of the Royal Treasury.
1.5.5. audit the reported financial condition of His Majesty's investments at any time.
1.5.6. provide, upon request of the Minister of Finance and any other time stated in law, a Financial Report containing the following information:
1.5.6.1. the amount, location, liquidity, and availability of all funds held by or for the Royal Treasury,
1.5.6.2. a detailed list of all changes in the account balances of the Royal Treasury since the last Report,
1.5.6.3. a balance sheet which clearly lists all expenses linking them to the relative sheet items in the budget bills approved in the Cosa,
1.5.6.4. the total amount of louise and postal items in circulation;
1.5.7. All accounts and other monies held by the Royal Treasury shall be held in the name of both the King and the Burgermeister, in such a way that the King shall be able to perform the functions of the Burgermeister in case of the Burgermeister's absence, on his own initiative or upon request of the Minister of Finance.

Morevoer,

I am sure your enthusiasm would extend to holding me accountable for what I present to the Ziu, after all.

For what is your responsability, yes.

I asked the preceding Burgermeister for past information to fill in some of these holes, and he indicated to me he would prefer I ask his successor.  I think that is eminently reasonable since he was already doing quite the hardest job in the country.

Probably because you dismissed him without asking him before?

By the way:

Lexh.C.3

3. The Officers of the Royal Civil Service shall have no fixed terms of office and shall not be removed from office by the dissolution of the Cosa.
3.1 The Secretary of State is appointed by the King on the recommendation of the Seneschál, and removed by the King on the recommendation of any two of the Seneschál, the Túischac'h or the Mençei for professional misconduct, inability to perform their duties due to incapacitation or failure to perform their required duties.[106]
3.2 The other Officers of the Royal Civil Service are appointed by the King on the recommendation of the responsible Minister, and removed by the King on the recommendation of the responsible minister for professional misconduct, inability to perform their duties due to incapacitation or failure to perform their required duties.

I wonder if the previous Burgermeister was dissmed for

• professional misconduct,
• inability to perform his duties due to incapacitation or
• failure to perform his required duty?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I am the Ministreu dal Finançù, and the Burgermeister is my direct report.  If I am directed by the law to provide information to the Ziu, incorporating a report from a civil servant under my legal direction,

The Burgermeister is not under your legal direction. He is responsible to you, but it is not under your legal direction except as required by law.

The report is provided according to my legal direction! If you're going to split hairs with the zeal of a microscopic barber, please do so correctly.

I am sure your enthusiasm would extend to holding me accountable for what I present to the Ziu, after all.

For what is your responsability, yes.

Great.  Agreed.

I wonder if the previous Burgermeister was dissmed for

• professional misconduct,
• inability to perform his duties due to incapacitation or
• failure to perform his required duty?

A new Burgermeister was appointed to take effect only upon his resignation.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

I wonder if the previous Burgermeister was dissmed for

• professional misconduct,
• inability to perform his duties due to incapacitation or
• failure to perform his required duty?

A new Burgermeister was appointed to take effect only upon his resignation.

[/quote]

to be honest I was deleting that part, because I wasn't sure as that went down in the data loss. My bad.

I am the Ministreu dal Finançù, and the Burgermeister is my direct report.  If I am directed by the law to provide information to the Ziu, incorporating a report from a civil servant under my legal direction,

The Burgermeister is not under your legal direction. He is responsible to you, but it is not under your legal direction except as required by law.

The report is provided according to my legal direction! If you're going to split hairs with the zeal of a microscopic barber, please do so correctly.

I am doing that correctly.

Please tell me where in the Lexh is said that the report is provided according to your legal direction.

2.8.3.1. a Financial Report as provided in El Lexhatx C.1.5.6;

1.5.6. provide, upon request of the Minister of Finance and any other time stated in law, a Financial Report containing the following information:

The law says only that he has to provide that to you as directed and according with the law.

Can you please point to me where the law says that is provided according to your legal direction?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

The Burgermeister is assigned to me "to report and consult concerning the conduct of their office as and when requested, necessary or useful," and in this case provides the report "upon request of the Minister of Finance."  In other words, by law I direct him to prepare the information and he reports to me on this and other matters concerning how he does his job.

The Burgermeister is a civil servant because their position persists until resignation or termination, and it's not a political position concerned with making policy, but rather a position implementing clearly-defined duties, reporting to someone elected by the people.

This esoteric point has quite passed out of usefulness to anyone, though.

The overall lay of the land is that I'm giving the information we have right now and can verify, and will provide the rest as soon as possible.  There is some delay caused by the fact that there haven't been any financial reports in the recent past or any disbursement reports, and we appointed a new Burgermeister upon the resignation of the preceding one after discussing with him how administering the election was very understandably quite enough work for any one person.  Possibly it might have also worked to delay, but I'd still probably be sorting through a CSV to try to match things up.

I'm grateful for your rigor, and I hope you keep it up, since I think it's definitely in service to your country.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

Before you said under your legal direction.

The report is provided according to my legal direction! If you're going to split hairs with the zeal of a microscopic barber, please do so correctly.

Now you only quote just a part of the section:

The Burgermeister is assigned to me "to report and consult concerning the conduct of their office as and when requested, necessary or useful,"

Because the full part is:

With the exception of the Secretary of State and the Permanent Secretaries, every Office of the Royal Civil Service shall be assigned to a responsible Minister of the Government as named below, to report and consult concerning the conduct of their office as and when requested, necessary or useful. Officers are not subject to the direction of their responsible Minister except as required by Organic and statutory law.

quite convenient to not quote the other part right?

and in this case provides the report "upon request of the Minister of Finance."  In other words, by law I direct him to prepare the information and he reports to me on this and other matters concerning how he does his job.

Also in this case you only quote a part of the section.There's not even a full stop after Finance.

provide, upon request of the Minister of Finance and any other time stated in law, a Financial Report containing the following information

that means that he provides the Financial Report

upon request of the Minister of Finance and any other time stated in law

which means:

any other time you request a Report AND when the law requires him to do.

the Financial Report attached to budget is in the last part "any other time stated in law" (which is 2.8.3.1. a Financial Report as provided in El Lexhatx C.1.5.6)

Moreover, the "request" - not for the budget because that is a duty he has to do by law - is simple
"Hey Burgermeister, please provides me with a Financial Report".
"Ok, I'll do it".

The point is: the fact that the law doesn't says what you think it should says or you thought the law said, doesn't mean the law is wrong.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Before you said under your legal direction.

The report is provided according to my legal direction! If you're going to split hairs with the zeal of a microscopic barber, please do so correctly.

Now you only quote just a part of the section:

The Burgermeister is assigned to me "to report and consult concerning the conduct of their office as and when requested, necessary or useful,"

Because the full part is:

With the exception of the Secretary of State and the Permanent Secretaries, every Office of the Royal Civil Service shall be assigned to a responsible Minister of the Government as named below, to report and consult concerning the conduct of their office as and when requested, necessary or useful. Officers are not subject to the direction of their responsible Minister except as required by Organic and statutory law.

quite convenient to not quote the other part right?

Statutory law is indeed what directs me to ask for the Financial Report and present it for the second Clark.  We've covered that quite a lot.

and in this case provides the report "upon request of the Minister of Finance."  In other words, by law I direct him to prepare the information and he reports to me on this and other matters concerning how he does his job.

Also in this case you only quote a part of the section.There's not even a full stop after Finance.

provide, upon request of the Minister of Finance and any other time stated in law, a Financial Report containing the following information

that means that he provides the Financial Report

upon request of the Minister of Finance and any other time stated in law

which means:

any other time you request a Report AND when the law requires him to do.

the Financial Report attached to budget is in the last part "any other time stated in law" (which is 2.8.3.1. a Financial Report as provided in El Lexhatx C.1.5.6)

Yes, this is exactly what I was just referencing.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

Yes, this is exactly what I was just referencing.

If this helped you to better understand how it should functions and the difference from civil servant and ministers, I'm glad I was able to help you.

As we started from what you said here:

the law states that I should list changes in account balance since the last report

That was quite a giant leap  ;)

Which brings us back to the first topic.

Previous financial reports and disbursement notices are not required to put together the Financial Report which is quite frankly not a difficult job.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Thank you for your feedback.  I am not sure we will reach an understanding on this point, beyond my assurance that we will provide the absent information as quickly as possible.  Your perspective remains valuable, and your scrutiny is appropriate and just.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

MinFor and the Seneschal have agreed that we should trim the proposed budget to try to accommodate some concerns, so the proposed BHAID budget will be slashed in half.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

@Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB , I was going to have the financial report part be separate at the top before this bill, but I wonder if that's allowed or considered good form.  As Secretary of State, do you have a preference in presentation?  If necessary, I can add it back as the first section of the bill.

[King Txec]

@Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB , I was going to have the financial report part be separate at the top before this bill, but I wonder if that's allowed or considered good form.  As Secretary of State, do you have a preference in presentation?  If necessary, I can add it back as the first section of the bill.

I'ma little fuzzy on this bill and haven't been following the debate with any regularity. It would probably be best to keep whatever the existing format of previous budget bills are. Sorry that I'm not able to be more specific. I'm currently experiencing vacation brain :-)

[Üc R. Tärfă]

MinFor and the Seneschal have agreed that we should trim the proposed budget to try to accommodate some concerns, so the proposed BHAID budget will be slashed in half.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

The current funds of the Kingdom consist of a checking account, a savings account, and a Paypal account.  On report from the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue, these accounts stand at the following balances:
Checking: $1,178.50
Savings: $46.60
Paypal: $267.93
Total: $1493.03

There should be the date of that assessment.

There was no financial report filed during the 57th Cosa, as confirmed with the Seneschal and Ministreu dal Finançù, of that term, and accordingly it will not be possible to provide a list of transactions.

There's no correlation between the "it will not be possible to provide a list of transactions" and the lack of a Financial Report attached to the 57th Budget.

[King Txec]

If I may, Baron, can you double check these balances:

The current funds of the Kingdom consist of a checking account, a savings account, and a Paypal account.  On report from the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue, these accounts stand at the following balances:
Checking: $1,178.50
Savings: $46.60
Paypal: $267.93
Total: $1493.03

When I was Burgermeister the vast majority of the treasury was in savings, not checking. Has the current Burgermeister moved the funds out of the interest accruing savings account and into checking? If so, for what purpose?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

lol thank you, no I just transposed those labels when I was copying and pasting from the Burgermeister. I'm going to update this when we get to submission day, so hopefully I would have caught that, but thank you!

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I have updated the draft with expenditures and notes indicating their connection to the preceding budget.  Per the SoS' wishes, I have also put the whole thing back into one familiar-format bill.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Are there any further questions, concerns, or objections before I Clark this?