Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!

Started by GV, July 27, 2020, 07:13:14 PM

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Miestră Schivă, UrN

Quote from: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 28, 2020, 07:57:44 AM
Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).

That's because, if you'll forgive me saying so, the dual-king proposal is totally irrelevant. It doesn't deal with any of the problems which Free Democrats have with the current monarchy, nor does it defend the idea of monarchy supported by the LCC.

PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

DNVercaria

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 28, 2020, 07:57:44 AM
Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).

That's because, if you'll forgive me saying so, the dual-king proposal is totally irrelevant. It doesn't deal with any of the problems which Free Democrats have with the current monarchy, nor does it defend the idea of monarchy supported by the LCC.

Insomuch as it is an attempt of offering a third way between republicanism and monarchism, it is a noble attempt of finding a truly uniting, pacifying solution for this still deeply split nationette. Do we really want to remain stuck in politics as some kind of a binary team sport forever? Good on the NPW for trying to break this mental blockade.

Miestră Schivă, UrN

Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)

PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

DNVercaria

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)

I don't want you to shut up. All I want to say is that I disagree wholeheartedly when this word "irrelevant" is popping up in the context of the proposal of  the NPW.  8)

Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 28, 2020, 07:57:44 AM
Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).

That's because, if you'll forgive me saying so, the dual-king proposal is totally irrelevant. It doesn't deal with any of the problems which Free Democrats have with the current monarchy, nor does it defend the idea of monarchy supported by the LCC.

Irrelevant?  To whom?  It's a major platform plank of one of the three political parties currently active in Talossa.

This simply screams that it's more important to "score points" off the party one finds to be the biggest threat than actually engage in political discourse.  The FreeDems and the LCC simply tear at each other.
Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu
Chisleu Bruno of the NPW
Senator from Benito

Miestră Schivă, UrN

#20
*groans*

Kneejerk reactions here. You asked my opinions of your proposal: I said "I don't have one because it's not relevant to me, i.e. it deals with 0% of the issues I have with the Talossan monarchy". Don't ask to be taken seriously, then complain when you are. Instead, take it as feedback: a political proposal has to deal with actually-existing social issues to be relevant.

PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Tierçéu Rôibeardescù

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.
Túischac'h of the 55th Cosa
MC, 55th Cosa, League of Center Conservatives
Secretary-General of the League of centre conservatives
Member of the L'Etats de Cézembre

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)
I didn't see him say you were being offensive or personally attacking you.  He just said he thought you were wrong.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan


Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Eðo Grischun

Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.

Thing is, the person making it personal here seems to be you. Miestra may be rough in her debating style, but at least the meat of her argument attacks the policies of the opposition.  You, on the other hand, are doing just exactly what you claim her to be doing (though she isn't), and that being focusing your attack on her personality, ad hominem.

Miestra has put forward her argument that she disagrees with certain policies.  Instead of retorting by defending those policies you choose to attack her personality and falsely equate her to our Nation's bogeyman from the past to down her.

I am aware that I am guilty, to a degree, here of playing "tu quoque", but still, and seriously, you might think you are somehow arguing the righteous and admirable position here, but you're just being the exact thing you are claiming to stand against.
Eovart Grischun S.H.

Former Distain
Former Minister
Former Senator for Vuode

Tierçéu Rôibeardescù

Quote from: Eðo Grischun on July 28, 2020, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.

Thing is, the person making it personal here seems to be you. Miestra may be rough in her debating style, but at least the meat of her argument attacks the policies of the opposition.  You, on the other hand, are doing just exactly what you claim her to be doing (though she isn't), and that being focusing your attack on her personality, ad hominem.

Miestra has put forward her argument that she disagrees with certain policies.  Instead of retorting by defending those policies you choose to attack her personality and falsely equate her to our Nation's bogeyman from the past to down her.

I am aware that I am guilty, to a degree, here of playing "tu quoque", but still, and seriously, you might think you are somehow arguing the righteous and admirable position here, but you're just being the exact thing you are claiming to stand against.

I see the hypocrisy.

I just shouldnt have to point it out in the first place. the shoe sure as hell doesn't fit me, somone else will have have to wear it.
Túischac'h of the 55th Cosa
MC, 55th Cosa, League of Center Conservatives
Secretary-General of the League of centre conservatives
Member of the L'Etats de Cézembre

Eðo Grischun

Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: Eðo Grischun on July 28, 2020, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.

Thing is, the person making it personal here seems to be you. Miestra may be rough in her debating style, but at least the meat of her argument attacks the policies of the opposition.  You, on the other hand, are doing just exactly what you claim her to be doing (though she isn't), and that being focusing your attack on her personality, ad hominem.

Miestra has put forward her argument that she disagrees with certain policies.  Instead of retorting by defending those policies you choose to attack her personality and falsely equate her to our Nation's bogeyman from the past to down her.

I am aware that I am guilty, to a degree, here of playing "tu quoque", but still, and seriously, you might think you are somehow arguing the righteous and admirable position here, but you're just being the exact thing you are claiming to stand against.

I see the hypocrisy.

I just shouldnt have to point it out in the first place. the shoe sure as hell doesn't fit me, somone else will have have to wear it.

I wasn't calling you out on hypocrisy.  I was saying you are flat out wrong.
Eovart Grischun S.H.

Former Distain
Former Minister
Former Senator for Vuode

Miestră Schivă, UrN

The above is what I keep misreading the title of this thread as. It's just as accurate.

PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Ián S.G. Txaglh

so this is what english speakers call a shitstorm, am i right? nice. i always like illustrative examples when learning new words.

and now for something compleeeetely different. guys, could the main reason for appalling attractive of talossa be not the freedems government but simply that we and world around us are changing radically? obviously, some of you have mentioned that outside life takes our attention, but more importantly, i see it on me, the everyday grinding mill of wurck, family and suchs strips me of spontaneousness and creativity. not that i do not want to, i simply cannot. time to time i whip up me myself to do something, but mostly i live in series of slightly variable stereotypes. i do not complain. i accept it as an inevitable necessity of progressing human life. i resist whenever i may, but do not let it fall on me.

next, the form of talossa needs also not to the most attractive to people with so so many possibilities to be with other people. let's face that, fascination of "playing" or "being" a nationette fades face to face the new world. what was new and funny in 90ies is an old, worn shirt in 2020. yes, there are still lots of youngsters doing micronations (yes, yes, i know), but in their own way mostly. talossan tradition seems to not so appealing in contrast to do things on their own, with their close friends.

i am also conlanger since ages and i still move around young conlangers, but their motivations and work differs from mine/people of my generation a lot and in many aspects.

talossa never really turned into multigeneration ship, we should not blame ourselves. culture changes and soon we will turn into a museum exhibit. let us enjoy what we have without stupid bickering and try to attract at least those rare freaks who want to cosplay nationette citizens ;) and it can be hardly done when the only thing they see are old cocks on a heap of manure fighting, pardon my klatchian. being honest is fine, being responsible is good, being too serious never is of any benefit for a jolly company. i am rosenbergian nice nihilist, i love fun (it is the very one good thing we give one to each other) and i refuse, yes, i refuse to stand by such pointless debate as presented in this threat. this is far beyond political discussion, far off of friendly teasing. howgh.

Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)

Churches!  Gravy!  Very Small Rocks!
Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu
Chisleu Bruno of the NPW
Senator from Benito

Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP

#29
Quote from: Ián S.G. Txaglh on July 29, 2020, 11:35:08 AMnext, the form of talossa needs also not to the most attractive to people with so so many possibilities to be with other people. let's face that, fascination of "playing" or "being" a nationette fades face to face the new world. what was new and funny in 90ies is an old, worn shirt in 2020. yes, there are still lots of youngsters doing micronations (yes, yes, i know), but in their own way mostly. talossan tradition seems to not so appealing in contrast to do things on their own, with their close friends.
So, the appeal of micronations hasnt diminished since the 90s. Instead, people do the exact same thing that lead to the creation of Talossa in the first place: "do[ing] things on their own, with their close friends". In fact, creating a micronation has never been easier, and there are a whole bunch of online meeting places where micronations can interact with each other (often in toxic, cringy ways -- I suppose that's what Ben meant by "bug nation"). What's stopping us from doing more publicity for ourselves? Sealand continues to be wellknown even outside the micronational community, and they have waaaaaaaaaaay less to offer than us.

Quotei am also conlanger since ages and i still move around young conlangers, but their motivations and work differs from mine/people of my generation a lot and in many aspects.
As a young (I guess) conlanger myself, I'd love to know what exactly you mean by that.
EDIT: On a different note, could I interest you in joining SIGN?

Quotetalossa never really turned into multigeneration ship, we should not blame ourselves. culture changes and soon we will turn into a museum exhibit.
But why does it have to be like this? If culture can change, why can't we? (that's a trick question, we do change -- the early 2010s are as ancient as the 1980s)
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
Feel free to PM me if you have a Glheþ translation request!

el PARTI TAFIALISTÀ, voastra va facçal in la 56 58:téa Cosă.