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Author Topic: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline  (Read 4805 times)

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« on: June 07, 2021, 09:08:47 PM »
Things that are already crimes under indigenous Talossan portions of El Lex A:

  • "knowingly accept or hold citizenship in a blacklisted micronation" (A.9.3); "anyone holding an office mentioned in A.9.5. to provide false information about his/her micronational involvement." (A.9.7); "or the Minister of Foreign Affairs or the Minister of Interior to seek, accept, or hold citizenship in a micronation (A.9.8)
  • "makes any fraudulent or dishonest claims or statements on his or her application for citizenship"; (A.16.1); "uses another person's identity or uses an identity that creates the impression of another person to post or convey messages via email or on any public forum in the Kingdom of Talossa." (A.16.2); "creates, for purposes of claiming citizenship or with the intent to deceive or mislead other Talossans, more than one identity for use in the Kingdom of Talossa, excepting name-changes that replace an earlier name previously held by the same person." (A.16.3)
  • running a bogus "official Talossan" website, which is sedition or treason!!! (A.20)
  • unauthorised use of "any official seal" (A.22)

In addition, certain things which are criminalised in Wisconsin are given increased penalties in Talossa, namely: "unlawful use of computerized communication systems"; "harassment"; "attempted computer crimes". But wow, that is a very small list.

What strikes me is that A.16,20,22 all seem to come under the headings of "perjury or counterfeiting", which are some of the things which I was assured we needed Wisconsin law to deal with. Harassment (at least the definition thereof) and bribery would of course need local definitions. A small list of additional offenses that need defining were suggested by a Talossan off-Witt:

Quote
"treason, embezzlement, perverting the course of justice, identity theft, theft of property belonging to the state, computer hacking with intent"

To some degree these are covered above (ID theft and computer hacking), but that's somewhere to start. Perhaps in some places, if all these are in the Wisconsin code right now, we can "copy and paste" the definitions if they're simple enough.
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2021, 10:18:08 PM »
Here are the current subject headings of Wisconsin law which are part of Talossan law. I will bold underline all those I think might possibly be not only relevant to Talossa, but possible to safely try in a Talossan court while preserving everyone's rights. Any disagreements? (I note that Wisconsin law does not seem to have a section on intellectual property - trademarks are under s. 132 of Wisconsin law, but there is nothing about copyright which I presume is a US federal matter. The point is that the Wisconsin portions of our law are currently mostly useless, or inappropriate.)

===
Fraudulent Conveyances
and Contracts.
240. Fraudulent conveyances and contracts relating to real estate.
241. Fraudulent contracts.
242. Uniform fraudulent transfer act.
243. General provisions relating to fraudulent conveyances and contracts.
244. Uniform power of attorney for finances and property.

Uniform Commercial Code.
401. Uniform commercial code — general provisions.
402. Uniform commercial code — sales.
403. Uniform commercial code — negotiable instruments.
404. Uniform commercial code — bank deposits and collections.
405. Uniform commercial code — letters of credit.
407. Uniform commercial code — documents of title.
408. Uniform commercial code — investment securities.
409. Uniform commercial code — secured transactions.
410. Uniform commercial code — funds transfers.
411. Uniform commercial code — leases.

Wisconsin Consumer Act.
421. Consumer transactions — general provisions and definitions.
422. Consumer credit transactions.
423. Consumer approval transactions and other consumer rights.
424. Consumer transactions — insurance. (PDF:
425. Consumer transactions — remedies and penalties.
426. Consumer transactions — administration.
427. Consumer transactions — debt collection.
428. First lien real estate and other mortgage loans.
429. Motor vehicle consumer leases.

Property.
700. Interests in property.
701. Trusts.
702. Powers of appointment.
703. Condominiums.
704. Landlord and tenant.
705. Multiple-party and agency accounts; nonprobate transfers at death; transfer on death security registration.
706. Conveyances of real property; recording; titles.
707. Time-share ownership.
708. Mortgages and land contracts.
709. Disclosures by owners of real estate.
710. Miscellaneous property provisions.
711. Digital property.

Criminal Code.
939. Crimes — general provisions.
940. Crimes against life and bodily security.
(only a subsection of these: eg. stalking or witness intimidation)
941. Crimes against public health and safety.
942. Crimes against reputation, privacy and civil liberties.
943. Crimes against property.

944. Crimes against sexual morality.
945. Gambling.
946. Crimes against government and its administration.
947. Crimes against public peace, order and other interests.

948. Crimes against children. (I have absolutely no faith that Talossan law could deal with crimes against Dandelions safely.)
949. Awards for the victims of crimes.
950. Rights of victims and witnesses of crime.
951. Crimes against animals.

Controlled Substances.
961. Uniform controlled substances act.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 11:13:17 PM by Miestră Schivă, UrN »
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2021, 11:09:03 PM »
we've prosecuted and/or convicted people of violating laws such as §947.0125, §939.10, §939.30, §939.31, §946.10, §946.61, and §943.70.

Let's just look those up.

§947.0125: "Unlawful use of computerized communication systems."

§939.10: "Common law crimes abolished; common law rules preserved. " ????

§939.30 "Solicitation." (to commit a crime).

§939.31 "Conspiracy"

§946.10 "Bribery of public officers and employees."

§946.61 "Bribery of witnesses"

§943.70 "Computer crimes."
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 03:05:35 AM by Miestră Schivă, UrN »
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Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2021, 04:08:19 AM »
Here are the current subject headings of Wisconsin law which are part of Talossan law.

In addition to those, we could put crimes that we find repugnant to Talossanity but cannot try outselves (possibly still mostly using the Wisconsin definitions, like murder, manslaughter, sexual assault etc) into a separate category, and then add a proviso that Talossans who are credibly convicted of such a crime abroad are to be considered guilty of it in Talossa as well. This would get rid of mystery crimes and also allow us to react where appropriate.
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2021, 04:12:12 AM »
I think it's important that technically it wouldn't be right to try someone again in Talossa for a crime they'd already been convicted of in another jurisdiction. The crime would still be something like "bringing Talossa into disrepute by involvement in an infamous crime", only you'd want a prescriptive list of infamous crimes.

But yeah, the distinction would have to be clear between:
1. crimes which the Talossan justice system can deal with.
2. infamous crimes which only a macro-justice system can deal with, but a credible conviction for which will incur the subordinate crime of "bringing Talossa into disrepute"
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2021, 04:22:22 AM »

§939.30 "Solicitation." (to commit a crime).

§939.31 "Conspiracy"

§946.10 "Bribery of public officers and employees."

§946.61 "Bribery of witnesses"

Ha ha ha ha, I just realised all these were in People v. La Mhà, a case which a certain now-Baron considered an outrage against justice at the time :D
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2021, 04:35:19 PM »
Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I think we can boil it down into:

1. Crimes against the Kingdom of Talossa:

- knowingly endanger the existence of the Kingdom of Talossa with the aid of non-Talossans ("treason");
- using fraud, harassment, bribery, physical or sexual violence or threats thereof to attempt to influence any election or any decision under the Organic Law of Talossa, or to remove or replace officials duly empowered by that Organic Law (inc. "sedition" and "perverting the course of justice");
- accepting anything of value (a "bribe") to do the above;
- perjury (the Wisconsin def seems to work fine);
- theft or conversion of State property, including intellectual property ("embezzlement"), including using a counterfeit of any official document to gain something of value;
- bringing Talossa into disrepute by being convicted by a credible foreign jurisdiction of a crime established at trial to have involved fraud, harassment, bribery, physical or sexual violence or threats thereof (a felony if sentenced more than 1 year in jail); *** we can take this out and debate it as a separate bill if it's still a problem
- inducing or attempting to induce any other Talossan to break the Law of Talossa (solicitation/conspiracy).

2. Crimes against other Talossans:

- fraud, harassment, physical or sexual violence or threats thereof against any citizen or "judicial person" under Talossan law;
- theft or conversion of individual property including intellectual property, private information and reputation (i.e. defamation);
- otherwise depriving an individual of the free exercise of their rights under the Organic Law

I honestly don't think we need any special laws about using computers to do any of the above. However, we might need to more precisely define the terms above, especially "harassment" and "violence".

As to existing crimes, El Lex A.16 would come under "fraud ... to influence an (immigration) decision"; A.20 and A.22 would be theft/conversion of State property. Personally I would prefer to delete A.9 altogether as a remnant of KR1's xenophobia, but that might come under "fraud" as well.

What do others think?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 07:06:45 PM by Miestră Schivă, UrN »
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2021, 06:42:38 PM »
My solution to "felony/misdemeanour" would be to take the existing definitions of A.5 and say: "a felony is punishable by anything on this list. A serious misdemeanour is punishable by civil disability on down. A regular misdemeanour is punishable by fines on down." And delete the bit about imprisonment.

Elsewhere in El Lexh (excluding the bits that are meant to be replaced by above), we would change "class A" to "serious" and "class C" to "regular" (edited), and just delete "class I". Or we could roll the two categories of misdemeanour into each other, I don't mind.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 07:36:24 PM by Miestră Schivă, UrN »
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Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2021, 07:25:14 PM »
My solution to "felony/misdemeanour" would be to take the existing definitions of A.5 and say: "a felony is punishable by anything on this list. A serious misdemeanour is punishable by civil disability on down. A regular misdemeanour is punishable by fines on down." And delete the bit about imprisonment.

Elsewhere in El Lexh (excluding the bits that are meant to be replaced by above), we would change "class A" to "regular" and "class C" to serious, and just delete "class I". Or we could roll the two categories of misdemeanour into each other, I don't mind.

I believe in the Wisconsin code class A is the most severe class, class C is the lowest class for misdemeanours and class I is the lowest one for felonies. The point of these classes is to determine the maximum allowed punishment for a given crime, which is relevant for fines or civil disability, since that is limited to three times the maximum allowed prison sentence of a class. So if we want to replace the class system we would have to either come up with class-like maximum punishments for each new category or add maximum allowed punishments to every crime.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 07:44:29 PM by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial »
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2021, 07:35:49 PM »
I believe in the Wisconsin code class A is the most severe class, class C is the lowest class for misdemeanours

Okay, that seems to be correct, I was misreading El Lexh. My point stands with the categories flipped. In my proposal, the maximum punishment for "serious" is civil disability, and the maximum for "regular" is a fine. I prefer having as few classes as possible, in fact only "felony" and "misdemeanour" if we could.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 07:37:50 PM by Miestră Schivă, UrN »
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2021, 09:48:22 PM »
So, ummm... I wrote a thing. I would happily replace 55RZ24 with the below replacement for Sections A.1-8 of El Lexh:

Quote
1.      General provisions of Talossan jurisprudence:
1.1.   Talossan courts shall interpret Organic and Statute Law through the lens of the Covenants of Rights and Freedoms, and otherwise in accordance with Talossan juridical precedent. Judges may also use precedent from other legal systems with which they are familiar to guide their decisions, though such precedent shall not be binding.
1.2.   Only crimes described in Talossan Organic and Statute Law may be prosecuted in Talossan courts.
2.      Felonies and misdemeanours. All crimes against Talossan law shall be classed as misdemeanours unless stated otherwise.
3.      Authorized punishments for all crimes classed as felonies shall be as follows:
3.1.    Banishment. Banishment may be ordered in conjunction with revocation of citizenship in any felony case. Banishment prohibits the former citizen from entering the territory of the Kingdom of Talossa. A former Talossan who has been banished may not be reinstated as a citizen.
3.2.    Revocation of citizenship. A sentence of revocation of citizenship directs the Chancery to remove the offender from the list of Talossan citizens. Simple revocation is without prejudice to a future reapplication for citizenship.
4.      Authorized punishments for all crimes classed as either felonies or serious misdemeanours shall be as follows:
4.1.   Civil disability. Civil disabilities may include any or all of the following:
4.1.1.      Bar from holding national executive office
4.1.2.      Bar from holding national judicial office
4.1.3.      Bar from holding national legislative office
4.1.4.      Bar from holding provincial office
4.1.5.      Bar from performing military service
4.1.6.      Bar from service in the Royal Civil Service
4.1.7.      Bar from posting on Wittenberg
5.      Authorized punishments for all crimes shall be as follows:
5.1.   Fines. When a fine is imposed as a component of any sentence, the court shall specify the period within which the sum must be paid, which period shall not be less than thirty days. The court may, in the interests of justice, allow the offender to pay the sum in more than one installment, according to a schedule prescribed by the court. Willful failure to pay a fine within the time provided is punishable as criminal contempt of court.
5.2.   Restitution. When imposing sentence for any crime, a court, in addition to any other penalty authorized by law, shall order the offender to make full or partial restitution to any victim of a crime considered at sentencing or, if the victim is deceased, to his or her estate, unless the court finds substantial reason not to do so and states the reason on the record. The court must specify a reasonable period of time, not less than thirty days, within which the offender must make restitution. Willful failure to make restitution within the time provided is punishable as criminal contempt of court. Court-ordered restitution shall not bar any victim from pursuing any civil remedies available at law to recover any amount or type of damages not covered by the order of restitution.
5.3.   Reprimand. In all criminal cases, a court may reprimand the offender in addition to (or in lieu of, where no minimum punishment applies) any other authorized punishment.
5.4.   In addition to any other punishment authorized by law, a court may order revocation of citizenship (as described elsewhere in this Lexhatx) upon conviction for a misdemeanour, only if the court determines, based on the offender's potential for rehabilitation and any aggravating circumstances of the offense(s), that any lesser punishment is unlikely to deter the offender from repeating his or her criminal behavior.
6.      Suspended sentences:
6.1.   A court may order the suspension of all or part of any sentence, for a period of time not to exceed two calendar years. At the end of the period of suspension ordered by the court, the suspended punishment is rescinded if the offender has not violated any condition of the suspension.
6.2.    If a court determines, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the offender violated any condition of his suspension during the period of the suspension, the suspension shall be revoked and the original punishment imposed. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to prohibit prosecuting an act violating a condition of suspension as a criminal offense in its own right, either in the same or a separate action as the revocation of suspension.
6.3.    Refraining from committing any further crimes is an implicit condition of every suspended sentence. Other conditions which may be imposed by the court include, but are not limited to:
6.3.1.      Injunction from requesting or accepting royal honours
6.3.2.      Injunction from violating Wittiquette
6.3.3.      The performance of a fixed amount of community service under the supervision of a public body or not-for-profit organization, as directed or approved by the court.
6.4.   Civil disabilities may be imposed in conjunction with a suspended sentence upon conviction of a felony, but where a sentence of revocation of citizenship has been suspended.
7.      Talossan Criminal Code
7.1.   Definitions.
7.1.1.      “Fraud” shall mean any act of deception carried out for the purpose of unfair, undeserved and/or unlawful gain, or the assumption of a false identity to such deceptive end.
7.1.2.      “Harassment” shall mean engaging in a course of conduct or repeatedly committing acts which harass, intimidate or distress a person and which serve no legitimate purpose.
7.2.   Crimes against the Kingdom.
7.2.1.      Treason. Whoever knowingly endangers the existence of the Kingdom of Talossa, its laws, institutions and state property, by enlisting or attempting to enlist the aid of non-Talossans, commits the felony of treason.
7.2.2.      Perverting the course of justice. Whoever uses fraud, harassment, physical or sexual violence or
threats thereof to attempt to influence an active case in any Cort under the
Organic Law is guilty of the felony of perverting the course of justice.
7.2.2.1.            Perverting the course of justice shall also include fabricating or disposing of evidence, as well as suborning perjury.
7.2.3.      Sedition. Whoever uses fraud, harassment, physical or sexual violence or threats thereof to attempt to influence any election or any other decision made under the Organic Law of Talossa (outside of an active case in any Cort), or to remove or replace officials duly empowered by that Organic Law, is guilty of the felony of sedition.
7.2.4.      Contempt of court. Contempt of court is a serious misdemeanour consisting of intentional:
7.2.4.1.            Misconduct in the presence of the court which interferes with a court proceeding or with the administration of justice, or which impairs the respect due the court;
7.2.4.2.            Disobedience, resistance or obstruction of the authority, process or order of a court;
7.2.4.3.            Refusal as a witness to appear, be sworn or answer a question; or
7.2.4.4.            Refusal to produce a record, document or other object.
7.2.5.      Perjury. Whoever under oath or affirmation orally makes a false material statement which the person does not believe to be true, in any matter, cause, action or proceeding, before the Ziu, any committee of the Ziu, or court of law, is guilty of the serious misdemeanour of perjury.
7.2.6.      Crimes against state property.
7.2.6.1.             Whoever steals or diverts to their own use without authorization the monetary or physical property of the Kingdom of Talossa is guilty of a felony if the monetary value of such theft is 100 louis or above, and a serious misdemeanour otherwise.
7.2.6.2.            Whoever improperly uses the intellectual property of the Kingdom of Talossa is guilty of a serious misdemeanour if with the intention of misrepresenting the Kingdom or improperly claiming the authority of the Kingdom, and a misdemeanour otherwise.
7.2.6.3.            Whoever improperly accesses any computer or information system belonging to the Kingdom of Talossa is guilty of a serious misdemeanour if with the intention of committing any other crime, and of a misdemeanour otherwise.
7.2.6.4.            Whoever makes a counterfeit of any official document or item pertaining to the Kingdom of Talossa and uses it to gain a benefit to which they were not otherwise entitled is guilty of a serious misdemeanour.
7.2.7.      Solicitation. Whoever induces or attempts to induce any other Talossan to break the Law of Talossa is guilty of the same class of offence as that which they sought to induce.
7.2.8.      Conspiracy. Whoever agrees with any other Talossan to break the Law of Talossa is guilty of the same class of offence as that which they agreed to commit.
7.2.9.      Bribery. The felony of bribery is committed by:
7.2.9.1.            Anyone who offers any officer of the Kingdom or witness in a Court case anything of value in return for the performance of their official duties or to influence their testimony.
7.2.9.2.            Any officer of the Kingdom or witness in a Court case who accepts a bribe (as above) without revealing it as soon as may be practical to the proper authorities.
7.2.10.  Bringing Talossa into disrepute. Any Talossan citizen who has brought Talossa into disrepute, through being convicted by a credible foreign court which is deemed to abide by Talossan values, of a crime established at trial to have involved fraud, harassment, bribery, physical or sexual violence or threats thereof, commits:
7.2.10.1.        A felony if sentenced to penal servitude of more than 2 years.
7.2.10.2.        A serious misdemeanour otherwise.
7.3.   Crimes against the person
7.3.1.      Whoever commits physical or sexual violence or threats thereof against any citizen or "judicial person" under Talossan law is guilty of a felony.
7.3.2.      Whoever commits fraud or harassment against any citizen or "judicial person" under Talossan law is guilty of a serious misdemeanour. Whoever commits threats of the above is guilty of a misdemeanour.
7.3.3.      Theft and invasion of privacy.
7.3.3.1.            Whoever commits theft or misappropriation of physical or monetary property valued at 100 louis or more, or improperly publishes a Talossan citizen’s private information, is guilty of a felony.
7.3.3.2.            Whoever commits theft or misappropriation of physical or monetary property valued at less than 100 louis, or of any intellectual property, or improperly accesses a Talossan citizen’s private information without publication, is guilty of a serious misdemeanour.
7.3.4.      Defamation. Whoever publicly defames the reputation of a Talossan individual in such a way as to bring them into hatred, ridicule and contempt is guilty of a serious misdemeanour.
7.3.4.1.            No statement shall be considered to be defamation if it is justified by being true, or by being fair comment in the absence of malicious intent.
7.3.5.      Whoever deprives an individual of the free exercise of their rights under the Organic Law in a way not otherwise mentioned in law commits a serious misdemeanour.
8.      Public Defender: No Talossan shall be convicted of any crime under this Lexhatx unless they have had the opportunity of defending themselves in Court. The Ministry of Justice shall appoint a Public Defender who is a member of the Talossan Bar at the request of any defendant, or if the defendant is for any other reason unable to defend themselves in Court.

You would have to also replace throughout the rest of El Lexh: "Class A misdemeanour" -> "serious misdemeanour"; "Class C misdemeanour" -> regular misdemeanour; "Class I felony" -> felony.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 11:47:36 PM by Miestră Schivă, UrN »
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Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2021, 10:03:27 PM »
Looks good on a first glance.

One thing that irks me is that, without the class system, there are no maximum lengths for civil disability or maximum amounts for fines now. Depending on whether we can believe Talossan judges to always be reasonable with these things, this may or may not be something that we'd need to fix.

Something else I've noticed is that the definition of perjury says "before any of the following", but then fails to specify. The full section on perjury in Wisconsin law is this: https://casetext.com/statute/wisconsin-statutes/criminal-code/chapter-946-crimes-against-government-and-its-administration/subchapter-iii-perjury-and-false-swearing/section-94631-perjury

Quote
(1) Whoever under oath or affirmation orally makes a false material statement which the person does not believe to be true, in any matter, cause, action or proceeding, before any of the following, whether legally constituted or exercising powers as if legally constituted, is guilty of a Class H felony:
     (a) A court;
     (b) A magistrate;
     (c) A judge, referee or court commissioner;
     (d) An administrative agency or arbitrator authorized by statute to determine issues of fact;
     (e) A notary public while taking testimony for use in an action or proceeding pending in court;
     (f) An officer authorized to conduct inquests of the dead;
     (g) A grand jury;
     (h) A legislative body or committee.
(2) It is not a defense to a prosecution under this section that the perjured testimony was corrected or retracted.

I believe points (a) to (h) could just be added to the sentence replacing the "any of the following" part without any issues, and I don't think point (2) needs to be its own point either, but who knows.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 10:05:18 PM by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial »
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2021, 10:05:27 PM »
without the class system, there are no maximum lengths for civil disability or maximum amounts for fines now.

ESB got 18 years civil disability, which was later overturned, which IMHO was ridiculous. 5 years maximum civil disability? 500 louis maximum fine (which would be half our total treasury)?

Perjury definition corrected.
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2021, 11:44:27 PM »
Here's an easier to read formatted version: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OfQlUZrowS4frssyea6-SLxz8Pcss5WNNxyKud82lQw/edit?usp=sharing, I'll make any further modifications to this version
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Offline Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: Talossan Criminal Code: an outline
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2021, 09:56:33 PM »
I requested access to assist, if you'd like some help.
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