Welcome to Wittenberg!

Author Topic: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition  (Read 3427 times)

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 1631
  • Semi-retired in a hole
    • Talossan since: 2004-06-12

    • View Profile
    • Free Democrats of Talossa
State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« on: July 26, 2021, 09:54:28 PM »
Quote from: El Lexhatx H.1.1
Following each General Election there shall be an official “State Opening of the Ziu”. At the start of the State Opening, the new Seneschal shall be sworn to the office publicly. The Sovereign shall then deliver a speech outlining the Government's legislative agenda and program for the term. The contents of this speech shall be communicated to the Sovereign by the incoming Seneschal prior to the ceremony. The Seneschal may announce Cabinet Ministers during the ceremony. A rebuttal by the Leader of the Opposition shall follow, which may be followed by a further rebuttal by the leader of the third largest party. When practical, the State Opening may include an official Living Cosă (and 'Living Senats') in which food and drink shall be featured and as many Talossans as possible shall be invited to attend. The event shall be organized and conducted by the Speakers of both Houses of the Ziu, working in coordination and cooperation with each other.

I know that the new Seneschál has drafted up a Speech from the Throne and is sending it to the King, so we've got that part sorted out. What we need to organise from here is:

- a date/time/setup for a live video conference featuring the Seneschal, the King and the Leader of the Opposition;
- an Opposition Leader, lol.

As to the latter:

Quote from: El Lexhatx H.23
. Members of the Cosâ who (in a given session of the Cosa) have voted NON on the most recent Vote of Confidence, or intend to do so on the next Vote of Confidence, shall be known as El Contrapharti Fieir da Sieu Maxhestà, or "His Majesty's Loyal Opposition" in English, or in short "El Contrapharti / The Opposition". Unless and until the members of the Opposition decide otherwise by majority vote, the "Leader of the Opposition" shall be the leader of the party with the most Cosa seats assigned to MCs who voted NON on the last Vote of Confidence.

... but the problem is we haven't had a VoC yet; unless you count the Seneschál election. The party tallies for votes against the current Seneschál on the VoC were:

NPW 11
Tafial 5
KLüP 11
DIEN 14
Balançéu 17

So, if we take that as the equivalent of a VoC, then X. Pôl Briga is the Leader of the Opposition and gets to do a rebuttal at the Speech from the Throne? And M. Tresplet is the "third party" leader who can also make a speech if desired? Do we need to modify the law on the Leader of the Opposition to cover this case in future?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 09:56:10 PM by Miestră Schivă, UrN »
JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Offline xpb

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 497
    • Talossan since: 10 November 2005

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2021, 11:30:51 PM »
Quote from: El Lexhatx H.1.1
Following each General Election there shall be an official “State Opening of the Ziu”. At the start of the State Opening, the new Seneschal shall be sworn to the office publicly. The Sovereign shall then deliver a speech outlining the Government's legislative agenda and program for the term. The contents of this speech shall be communicated to the Sovereign by the incoming Seneschal prior to the ceremony. The Seneschal may announce Cabinet Ministers during the ceremony. A rebuttal by the Leader of the Opposition shall follow, which may be followed by a further rebuttal by the leader of the third largest party. When practical, the State Opening may include an official Living Cosă (and 'Living Senats') in which food and drink shall be featured and as many Talossans as possible shall be invited to attend. The event shall be organized and conducted by the Speakers of both Houses of the Ziu, working in coordination and cooperation with each other.

I know that the new Seneschál has drafted up a Speech from the Throne and is sending it to the King, so we've got that part sorted out. What we need to organise from here is:

- a date/time/setup for a live video conference featuring the Seneschal, the King and the Leader of the Opposition;
- an Opposition Leader, lol.

As to the latter:

Quote from: El Lexhatx H.23
. Members of the Cosâ who (in a given session of the Cosa) have voted NON on the most recent Vote of Confidence, or intend to do so on the next Vote of Confidence, shall be known as El Contrapharti Fieir da Sieu Maxhestà, or "His Majesty's Loyal Opposition" in English, or in short "El Contrapharti / The Opposition". Unless and until the members of the Opposition decide otherwise by majority vote, the "Leader of the Opposition" shall be the leader of the party with the most Cosa seats assigned to MCs who voted NON on the last Vote of Confidence.

... but the problem is we haven't had a VoC yet; unless you count the Seneschál election. The party tallies for votes against the current Seneschál on the VoC were:

NPW 11
Tafial 5
KLüP 11
DIEN 14
Balançéu 17

So, if we take that as the equivalent of a VoC, then X. Pôl Briga is the Leader of the Opposition and gets to do a rebuttal at the Speech from the Throne? And M. Tresplet is the "third party" leader who can also make a speech if desired? Do we need to modify the law on the Leader of the Opposition to cover this case in future?

I am a bit fuzzy on this process of setting of the tone of debate, and what the time sensitivity is.

This week I am assiting the logistics for the world quizzing championships, then upcoming month has me traveling with my son to an international robotics competition (as their team won the regional event), then a week of prep before taking him to explore the area around his college prior to his start of an orientation week there.  I expect to my attention to Talossan politics to attenuated at best.

With the assumption that this process is desired to take place within the month, perhaps it would be appropriate in this case to have one or more of the other minority parties participate in the evaluation of the statement of the Seneschál, one being the "opposition" and another being the "third"?  Or perhaps I should provide a proxy to M. DIEN Tresplet for this specific activity as the coordinator of opposition?

Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 402
  • Batetz las maes, perf. — Ladintsch Naziunal
    • Talossan since: 12. Mai dallas 2014/XXXV

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2021, 08:22:51 AM »
So, me and the Mençei S:reu @Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu are in charge of the preparations, yes?

I'd also like to ask the previous Túischac'h @Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù for help with the preparations since he was in charge of the livestream last time.
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
Feel free to PM me if you have a Glheþ translation request!

Va blog in Talossan: el Moct àl Súladi
El Parti Tafialistà, el parti el pü sancphünt del mundeu entieir.

Offline Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 245
    • Talossan since: 2014-02-21

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2021, 12:06:16 PM »
Absaloutly I can set it all up for for you :)
Túischac'h of the 55th Cosa
MC, 55th Cosa, League of Center Conservatives
Secretary-General of the League of centre conservatives
Member of the L'Etats de Cézembre

Offline Breneir Tzaracomprada

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 668
  • Remember your humanity and forget the rest
    • Talossan since: 09-27-2007

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2021, 05:04:02 PM »
So, me and the Mençei S:reu @Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu are in charge of the preparations, yes?

I'd also like to ask the previous Túischac'h @Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù for help with the preparations since he was in charge of the livestream last time.

S:reu Túischac'h, for the purposes of this inquiry and future legislative action the Talossan National Congress is to be considered a member of His Majesty's Opposition.

Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 402
  • Batetz las maes, perf. — Ladintsch Naziunal
    • Talossan since: 12. Mai dallas 2014/XXXV

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2021, 05:43:36 PM »
S:reu Túischac'h, for the purposes of this inquiry and future legislative action the Talossan National Congress is to be considered a member of His Majesty's Opposition.
Acknowledged!
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
Feel free to PM me if you have a Glheþ translation request!

Va blog in Talossan: el Moct àl Súladi
El Parti Tafialistà, el parti el pü sancphünt del mundeu entieir.

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 1631
  • Semi-retired in a hole
    • Talossan since: 2004-06-12

    • View Profile
    • Free Democrats of Talossa
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2021, 06:42:04 PM »
Objection. Under El Lexhatx H.23, the Opposition are those members of the Cosa who vote CONTRA on the VoC.
JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Offline Breneir Tzaracomprada

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 668
  • Remember your humanity and forget the rest
    • Talossan since: 09-27-2007

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2021, 06:52:45 PM »
Members of the Cosâ who (in a given session of the Cosa) have voted NON on the most recent Vote of Confidence, or intend to do so on the next Vote of Confidence, shall be known as El Contrapharti Fieir da Sieu Maxhestà, or "His Majesty's Loyal Opposition" in English, or in short "El Contrapharti / The Opposition". Unless and until the members of the Opposition decide otherwise by majority vote, the "Leader of the Opposition" shall be the leader of the party with the most Cosa seats assigned to MCs who voted NON on the last Vote of Confidence.

There is a definite intention to vote No on the next Vote of Confidence. This is under El Lexhatx H.23 which was cited by the initiator of this thread.

Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 402
  • Batetz las maes, perf. — Ladintsch Naziunal
    • Talossan since: 12. Mai dallas 2014/XXXV

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2021, 06:53:05 PM »
Objection. Under El Lexhatx H.23, the Opposition are those members of the Cosa who vote CONTRA on the VoC.
The TNC did vote against the Coalition's Seneschal candidate at first before the vote was edited (is that even allowed?), and since the TNC's status as either part of the Opposition or Government would neither change who the Tanaischteu is nor affect the order of Speakers for the August Clark (simply because no one pre-registered their speeches so there is no fixed order of speakers, meaning everyone will be able to speak in whichever order they feel like), I would say it would be fine to treat the TNC as de facto part the Opposition until they vote Non on the VoC next month.

I'm open to having my mind changed, though.

EDIT: Ah there we go, expressing your intent to vote Non is sufficient. Yeah, I see no problem whatsoever with treating the TNC as part of the opposition then.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 06:57:02 PM by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial »
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
Feel free to PM me if you have a Glheþ translation request!

Va blog in Talossan: el Moct àl Súladi
El Parti Tafialistà, el parti el pü sancphünt del mundeu entieir.

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 1631
  • Semi-retired in a hole
    • Talossan since: 2004-06-12

    • View Profile
    • Free Democrats of Talossa
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2021, 11:20:23 PM »
Yeah, but why, Brenéir. No satisfactory explanation has even been given about how you flipped from volunteering yourself for Cabinet positions to turning against us. It is actually personally hurtful to me, who had to do some fast talking to get the TNC involved in the coalition in the first place. I feel like I got kicked in the face and I don't even know why.
JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 1631
  • Semi-retired in a hole
    • Talossan since: 2004-06-12

    • View Profile
    • Free Democrats of Talossa
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2021, 04:09:36 PM »
Anyway, I am extremely upset that we have not had the State Opening of the Ziu before the First Clark went out. This is not the fault of the SoS, who is doing his job right; nor of the Seneschál, who's written the Speech from the Throne. But people say that the justification for the Talossan Monarchy rests on ceremonial stuff like this.
JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Offline Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 1503
  • compassionem audentiam verumque quaeramus
    • Talossan since: 6-9-2006

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2021, 04:48:06 PM »
Well, it seems like the people responsible for organizing it had gotten started, and then things got off-track with the debate about who gets to be in the Opposition (a Talossan first, I think). I have been helping keep the calendar organized for the throne as a member of the privy council; is there any assistance with scheduling or inquiries along those lines that I can help with?
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

    Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
    Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein


Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 402
  • Batetz las maes, perf. — Ladintsch Naziunal
    • Talossan since: 12. Mai dallas 2014/XXXV

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2021, 06:28:38 PM »
Being the Túischac'h, I am at least partly responsible for this delay. I would like to have the State Opening as soon as possible. When's everyone free?
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
Feel free to PM me if you have a Glheþ translation request!

Va blog in Talossan: el Moct àl Súladi
El Parti Tafialistà, el parti el pü sancphünt del mundeu entieir.

Offline xpb

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 497
    • Talossan since: 10 November 2005

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2021, 05:54:39 PM »
As per the stated division at https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=908.msg7292#msg7292 B - Balançeu/Balance has a total of 33 seats in the Cosa.
I represent 17 seats, and @Dixhet Fira represents 16 seats.

For the month of August, for the specific purpose of establishing a leader of the opposition and for no other purpose, I provide proxy for the 17 seats in the Cosa that I personally represent to @Munditenens Tresplet, thus bringing the total for DIEN to 31 to become the primary representative of the opposition.

The casting of votes on specific legislation will remain within the purview of B - Balançeu/Balance.  To reiterate, this proxy is only for the purpose of establishing an opposition leader for the formal activities of opening of the Ziu.

Offline Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 1503
  • compassionem audentiam verumque quaeramus
    • Talossan since: 6-9-2006

    • View Profile
Re: State Opening of the Ziu / Leader of the Opposition
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2021, 11:42:40 PM »
Being the Túischac'h, I am at least partly responsible for this delay. I would like to have the State Opening as soon as possible. When's everyone free?
Apparently the Seneschal is on vacation and thus presumably unavailable, so we should probably find out that timeframe, first.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

    Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
    Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein